59、凡从地上进入灵界的人，包括天主教徒，一开始都被保持在所持守的信仰和他们的本土宗教中。因此，天主教徒总有一些代表教皇的人来管理他们，他们也以在世时的那种仪式来崇拜这些人。很少有曾在世上为教皇的人来扮演教皇的角色；然而，有一个二十年前曾在罗马担任教皇的人（译注：可能是教皇克莱门特十二世，1730-1740年）被委派来管理他们，因为他心里怀有这种观念：圣言比人们所相信的更神圣，当敬拜主。在担任教皇职务数年后，他退位，转而加入改革宗基督徒；他仍在他们当中，享受幸福的生活。我被允许与他交谈，他说，他只敬拜主，因为祂是神，拥有掌管天地的权柄。他还说，向圣徒祈求是毫无意义的，他们的弥撒也是毫无意义的。他说，他在世时本打算改革教会，但由于他所提出的种种原因而未能如愿。在最后审判之日，当天主教徒的北方大城被摧毁时，我看见他坐在一顶轿子中被抬走，并被带到一个安全的地方。其继任者的命运则截然不同。
59. All people who come into the spiritual world from our earth, including Catholics, are kept at first in the confession of faith and the religion of their homeland. Therefore the Catholics there always have someone set over them to represent the papacy, someone to whom they give the same ritual adoration they gave the pope in the world. It is rare for anyone who has actually been a pope in the world to play the role of pope there. One exception, though, is the person who had been pope of Rome twenty years previously. He was given this position in the spiritual world because at heart he had treasured a conviction that the Word was holier than people believed and that the Lord was to be the focus of worship. After he had served as a pope there for a few years, he stepped down and went over to join the Protestant Christians. He is still with them, and is leading a blessed life. I was granted an opportunity to talk with him. He said that he reveres the Lord alone, because the Lord is God and has power over heaven and earth. He also said that prayers to the saints are of no value and that the same holds true for masses in their honor. He said that in the world he had tried to reform the church but had been unable to for various reasons, which he told me.
When a great northern city where Catholics lived was destroyed on the day of the Last Judgment, I saw him being carried away on a sedan chair and set down in a place of safety. Something quite different happened to his successor.
59. All who come from earth into the spiritual world are kept to begin with in the faith held and the religion practised in their native land. This happens to the Roman Catholics too; so they always have some representative Pope set over them, whom they venerate with similar ritual to that observed in the world. It is not often that anyone who was Pope in the world plays the role of Pope. However, the man who was Pope at Rome twenty years ago 1was set over them, because he cherished in his heart the notion that the Word is more holy than is generally believed, and that the Lord is to be worshipped. But he abdicated after carrying out the duties of Pope for a number of years, and took himself off to join the Reformed Christians; he is still among them and enjoys a blessed life. I was allowed to talk with him, and he said that he venerates the Lord alone, because He is God and has power over heaven and earth. He said that calling on the saints was nonsense, and so were their Masses. He said that in the world he had intended to reform the church, but had been unable to do so for reasons he gave. I saw him, when on the day of the Last Judgment the great northern city inhabited by the Roman Catholics was destroyed, carried away in a sedan chair and taken to a safe place. The fate of his successor was quite different.
Footnotes:
1. Probably Pope Clement XII (1730-1740).
59. All who come from the earth into the spiritual world, are at first kept in the confession of faith, and in the religion of their country; and so therefore are the Papists. On this account, they always have some representative Pontiff set over them, whom they also adore with the same ceremony as in the world. Rarely does any Pope from the world act the Pontiff there; yet he who was Pope at Rome twenty years ago, 1was appointed over the Papists, because he cherished in heart that the Word is more holy than is believed, and that the Lord ought to be worshiped. But, after filling the office of Pope for some years, he abdicated it, and betook himself to the Reformed Christians, among whom he still is, and enjoys a happy life. It was granted me to speak with him, and he said, that he adored the Lord alone, because He is God, who has power over heaven and earth, and that the invocations of saints, and also their masses, are trifles; and that when he was in the world, he intended to restore that church, but that for reasons, which he mentioned, he found it impossible to do so. When the great northern city of the Papists was destroyed, on the day of the Last Judgment, I saw him carried out of it on a couch, and taken to a place of safety. Quite a different thing happened to his successor.
Footnotes:
1. This was published in 1763.
59. Omnes qui in mundum spiritualem e terris veniunt, in confessione fidei et in religione patriae suae in principio tenentur; ita quoque Pontificii: quare semper aliquem repraesentativum Pontificem sibi praepositum habent, quem etiam simili ritu adorant, quo in mundo: raro aliquis Papa in mundo agit ibi Pontificem; sed usque ille qui ante viginti annos Romae Papa fuit, illis praefuit, ex causa quia ille corde suo fovit quod Verbum sanctius esset quam creditur, et quod Dominus colendus esset: sed ille, postquam per aliquot annos functus est Pontificali munere, abdicavit se illo, et contulit se ad Reformatos Christianos, inter quos adhuc est, et vita beata fruitur. Datum est loqui cum illo, et dixit, quod Dominum solum adoret, quia Ipse est Deus, Cui potestas est super caelum et terram, et quod invocationes sanctorum essent nugae, tum etiam missae eorum; et quod in mundo intenderit restaurare illam ecclesiam, sed quod non potuerit propter causas, quas etiam dixit. Vidi illum, quando urbs magna septentrionalis, in qua fuerunt Pontificii, die ultimi judicii destruebatur, in lectica exportatum, et in locum securum delatum. Aliud prorsus evenit successori ejus.