135、然而，与灵人说话是可能的（尽管与天堂天使说话极为罕见）；几个世纪以来，许多人被允许与灵人说话。当这种情况发生时，灵人以人的母语与他说话，只说三言两语。但那些经主的允许说话的灵人从来不说夺走理性思考自由的任何话，也不教导人。因为唯独主教导人，不过是当人处于光照或启示状态时，间接通过圣言教导他的；对此，容后再述（171-174节）。我蒙允许通过亲身经历知道这是真的。因为多年来，我一直与灵人和天使交谈；没有任何灵人敢，也没有任何天使想告诉我任何事，更不用说教导我关于圣言中的任何事，或关于取自圣言的教义的任何事了；唯独主教导我，祂向我显明，并从那时起就在我眼前显现，现在不断显现为祂在其中的一轮太阳，就像祂向天使显现一样。祂已经光照或启示我。
135. Still, communication with spirits is possible, though rarely with angels of heaven, and it has been granted to many for centuries. But when it is granted, the spirits speak with the person in his native language, and only a few words. Those who speak with the Lord's permission, however, never say anything that takes away the freedom of a person's reason, nor do they instruct him. For the Lord alone teaches a person, but indirectly through the Word when the person is in a state of enlightenment, as we will later show.
The reality of this is something I have been given to know from personal experience. I have had communication with spirits and angels for a number of years now, and no spirit has dared, nor has any angel wished to say anything to me, still less instruct me, about anything in the Word or about any point of doctrine from the Word. Rather I have been instructed by the Lord alone, who revealed Himself to me, and who afterward appeared and continues to appear constantly before my eyes as the sun in which He is, as He does to angels, and so has enlightened me.
135. We are allowed to talk with spirits (though rarely with angels of heaven), and many people have been allowed to for centuries. When it happens, though, they talk with us in our own everyday language and use only a few words. Further, the ones who have the Lord's permission to talk with us never say anything that would take away our freedom to think rationally; and they do not teach, either. Only the Lord teaches us, indirectly, through the Word, when we are enlightened (there will be more on this later [171-174]). I have been granted knowledge of this by personal experience. I have been talking with spirits and angels now for many years, and no spirit has dared, and no angel has wanted, to tell me anything, let alone teach me, about things in the Word or any aspect of theology based on the Word. Only the Lord has taught me, the Lord who was revealed to me and who since then has been and is constantly before my eyes as the sun in which he dwells, just as he is for angels. He has enlightened me.
135. Nevertheless, conversation with spirits, though rarely with angels of heaven, is allowed and has been granted to many for ages back. When it is granted the spirits speak with man in his native tongue, but only a few words. Those, however, who speak by permission of the Lord say nothing whatever that takes away the freedom of the reason, nor do they teach; for the Lord alone teaches man, though mediately by means of the Word when he is in a state of enlightenment; but about this something will be said in following numbers. It has been granted me by my own experience to know that this is the case. I have had conversation with spirits and angels for many years now; and no spirit has dared, nor has any angel wished, to tell me anything, still less to instruct me, about what is in the Word, or about any matter of doctrine from the Word. I have been taught by the Lord alone, who was revealed to me, and who has since constantly appeared before my eyes as the Sun in which He is; and He appears in the same way as He appears to the angels, and He has enlightened me.
135. Nevertheless, conversation with spirits is possible (though rarely with the angels of heaven); and this has been granted to many for ages back. And when it is granted the spirits speak with man in his mother tongue, and only a few words. But those who speak by the Lord's permission never say any thing that takes away the freedom of the reason, nor do they teach; for the Lord alone teaches man, but mediately by means of the Word when in a state of enlightenment, of which hereafter. That this is true it has been granted me to know by personal experience. For several years I have talked with spirits and with angels; nor has any spirit dared or any angel wished to tell me any thing, still less to instruct me, about any matter in the Word, or about any matter of doctrine from the Word; but I have been taught by the Lord alone, who was revealed to me, and who has since appeared and now appears constantly before my eyes as a Sun in which He is, in the same way that He appears to the angels, and has enlightened me.
135. At usque datur loquela cum spiritibus, sed raro cum angelis coeli, ac data est multis a saeculis retro; at cum datur, loquuntur cum homine in ejus vernacula, sed solum paucas voces: sed illi qui loquuntur ex permissione Domini, nusquam loquuntur aliquid quod tollit liberum rationis, nec docent; solus enim Dominus docet hominem, sed mediate per Verbum in illustratione, de qua in sequentibus: quod ita sit, ex propria experientia datum est scire; loquela mihi fuit cum spiritibus et cum angelis nunc per plures annos, nec ausus est aliquis spiritus, nec voluit aliquis angelus, mihi quicquam dicere, minus instruere, de aliquibus in Verbo, aut de aliquo doctrinali ex Verbo, sed docuit me solus Dominus, Qui mihi revelatus est, et postea ut Sol in quo Ipse, ante oculos meos continue apparuit et apparet, quemadmodum apparet angelis, et illustravit.