2985. It was shown that they suppose they live from themselves, and yet do not live from themselves
I spoke with certain ones, [saying] that they seem to be carried in carriages and not to believe otherwise than that it is so. And when they were in the carriages and were told that it was a fantasy, also that they imagine themselves endowed with a body, and that they have hands because they feel by touch, then one was saying this is not a fantasy, because he feels his hand, and I saw him touching it.
But the hand can be taken from him, and a new one come in its place, in fact many hands can be added to him and he not know but that they are real, and deny that it is a fantasy because he sees and feels them. Hence one was prompted to conclude that it is the same when they think they live by their own life, and whether it is not just as well, since they do not know or imagine otherwise. 1748, 29 Aug.
2985. IT WAS DEMONSTRATED THAT THEY SUPPOSE THEY LIVE FROM THEMSELVES, AND YET THEY DO NOT LIVE FROM THEMSELVES.
I spoke with certain [spirits], that they seem to be conveyed in carriages, and not to believe other than that it is so, and [especially] when they were in carriages and it was told them, that it was a phantasy: further that they suppose they are endowed with a body and have hands, because they perceive [persentiscunt] touch. Then one said, that this is not a phantasy, because he feels his hand touching it, I perceived: but [his] hand can be taken away from him, and a new one [substituted] in place, yea many [hands] be added to him, and he not know different, and can deny that it is a phantasy, because he sees and touches [it]. Whence may be concluded, that the case is similar, when they suppose they live from their own life, further is it enough or no, because [since] [cum] they do not know and think otherwise. - 1748, August 29.
2985. Demonstratum quod putent se vivere ex se, et usque non vivunt ex se
Loquutus sum cum quibusdam, quod videantur vehi curribus, et non aliter credere quam quod ita sit, et cum in curribus essent, et id eis dictum quod phantasia esset, tum 1
quod putent se corpore praeditos 2
, et manus habere, quia tactu persentiscunt, tunc unus [erat] dicens quod hoc non phantasia sit, quia sentit manum suam, tangens eam, quod percepi 3
, sed ei potest manus adimi, et nova loco, imo plures manus ei adjici, et is non aliter scire, et negare quod phantasia sit quia videt [et] tangit 4
; exinde concludere datum est, quod simile se habeat, quod putent se vivere suamet vita; tum annon satis sit, cum non aliter sciant et putent. 1748, 29 Aug.
Footnotes:
1. The Manuscript has esset; tum
2. This is how it appears in J.F.I. Tafel's edition; the Manuscript has praediti
3. The Manuscript has percepi
4. The Manuscript has videt tangit sed vide indicem ad Fallacia, Sensus, et Vita