4568. About life after death people appear to themselves to be living in the world
I was engaged in conversation with some within the Church concerning a person's life after death. They said that people who die are not raised up to life except on the day of the last judgment and that they then rise up with the body also. But I replied to them repeatedly that the day of the last judgment for all people is immediately after they die and that then they come into the other life and appear to themselves to be in a body just as in the world, but that the body they have here is not visible to the eyes of the body in the world, just as the body in the world is not visible to the eyes of that body there. But those from the Church here in the world completely denied and scoffed at this. They did not realize that I knew this from actual experience. They said that they believe the resurrection can take place only together with the body, and they did not at all want to hear that the soul has a body nor even that the soul has any shape, still less that the soul is a spirit in human form after the death of the body. From this I realized that they had absolutely no mental image of the soul as being something, or of the spirit, or of the inner person, and that to them it appeared a complete paradox, or rather impossibility, that a human being appears in a human shape in the other life, just as did the spirits and angels spoken of in the Word, who appeared on many occasions. From this I could also conclude that few within the Church believe in the resurrection. I have also spoken about this several times with spirits. They were surprised that people of the Church today are of this character and very surprised that they entirely reject the fact that in the other life a human being appears as a human being, likewise all spirits and angels among themselves, and that they see each other much more clearly than in the world, hear each other, converse together, even touch each other, thus that they are in a body and also in a world, but in a different one, not visible to the eyes of people living in the earthly body, just as the world of the latter is invisible to the eyes of the former.
4568. CONCERNING THE LIFE AFTER DEATH: THAT MAN APPEARS TO HIMSELF TO LIVE IN THE WORLD.
I was in discussion with some within the church, concerning the life of man after death. They said that the man who dies is not awakened into life till the day of the last judgment; and that, then, he rises again with the body also. But I, as often, replied to them that the day of the last judgment to anyone is immediately when he dies, and that, then, he comes into another life, and, there, plainly appears to himself in a body just as in the world; but that, there, his body is not visible to the eyes of the body in the world, just as the body in the world is not visible to the eyes of that body there. But they of the Church here in the world, wholly denied this, and also scoffed at it, being unaware that I knew this from experience itself. They said they believed that resurrection is only granted when one is at the same time in the body; and that the soul has a body they were utterly unwilling to know at all, not even that the soul has any form, still less that the soul is a spirit in human form after the life of the body. From this, I clearly saw that they had no idea at all concerning the soul, that it is anything, nor concerning the spirit, nor concerning the internal man, and that, to them, it appeared wholly paradoxical, yea, impossible, that man, in the other life - like the angels and spirits, who appeared to many, concerning whom [we read] in the Word - appears in the human form. Hence, I was also able to infer that few within the Church believe in a resurrection. I have also often spoken about this matter with spirits, and they marveled that the man of the Church is at this day of such a character, and especially that they wholly reject the truth that man appears like a man in the other life; and similarly all spirits and angels to each other; and that they mutually see each other much more clearly than in the world; mutually hear each other, converse together, yea, touch each other; so that they are in a body, and also in a world, but in another, which is not visible to the eyes of men living in the earthly body, just as the world of men [is invisible] to the eyes of spirits and angels.
4568. De vita post mortem, quod appareat homo sibi vivere in mundo
Cum aliquibus intra Ecclesiam in sermone fueram de vita hominis post mortem, dixerunt quod homo qui moritur non exsuscitetur in vitam nisi die ultimi judicii, et quod tunc resurgat etiam corpore, sed illis toties respondi, quod dies ultimi judicii cuivis sit statim cum moritur, et quod tunc in alteram vitam veniat, et ibi appareat sibi in corpore plane sicut in mundo, sed quod corpus ejus ibi non sit conspicuum oculis corporis in mundo, sicut nec corpus in mundo conspicuum est oculis illius corporis ibi, sed hoc prorsus illi ab Ecclesia hic in mundo negarunt, et quoque irriserunt, nescientes, quod hoc scirem ab ipsa experientia, dicebant quod credant resurrectionem modo dari cum corpore simul, et quod animae esset corpus, hoc prorsus non scire volebant, ne quidem quod animae esset aliqua forma, minus quod anima sit spiritus in forma humana post vitam corporis; inde appercipiebam, quod prorsus nullam ideam haberent de anima quod sit aliquid, nec de spiritu, nec de interno homine, et quod illis prorsus ut paradoxon, imo ut impossibile appareat, quod homo in forma humana appareat in altera vita, sicut spiritus et angeli qui apparuerunt pluribus, de quibus in Verbo; exinde quoque concludere potui, quod pauci intra Ecclesiam credant resurrectionem. De hac re etiam aliquoties loquutus sum cum spiritibus, qui mirati sunt, quod homo Ecclesiae hodie talis sit, et maxime quod id prorsus rejiciant, quod homo sicut homo appareat in altera vita, similiter ac omnes spiritus et angeli inter se, et quod se mutuo videant multo clarius quam in mundo, se mutuo audiant, colloquantur inter se, imo se tangant, ita quod in corpore sint, et quoque in mundo, sed in alio, qui oculis hominum viventium in corpore terrestri non conspicuus, sicut horum mundus non oculis illorum.