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《真实的基督教》 第462节

（一滴水译，2017）

　　462.记事四：
　　在灵界，我眺望海岸，看到一个壮观的港口。我过去往里一瞧，只见里面有大大小小的船只，载有各种货物。一些小男孩和小女孩正坐在船横板上，将货物分发给想要的人。他们说：“我们正在等那些可爱的海龟。它们很快就会从海中浮上来。”然后，我看见大大小小的海龟，它们的背壳和鳞片上还驼着幼龟，全都朝周边岛屿望去。父海龟有两个头，大的被象身体那样的外壳覆盖着，这使它们看上去很红润；而另一个小头是这类海龟通常有的那种。它们能将小头缩进前半身，还能将其插进大头，把它藏起来。不过，我一直盯着那个又大又红的头，发现它好像有一张人脸。它们正和坐在横板上的男孩女孩们聊天，还舔他们的手。而这些孩子则抚摸它们，给它们食物和美味，以及贵重物品，如做衣服的丝绸、做桌子的柏木，装饰用的紫色，上色用的朱红等。
　　看到这些事物，我很想知道它们代表什么，因为我知道，灵界中出现的一切事物都是对应，代表属情感及其思维的属灵事物。于是，他们从天上与我对话，说：“你知道港口和船只，以及船上的男孩和女孩分别代表什么；只是你不知道这些海龟象征什么。海龟代表那里的神职人员，他们将信从仁及其善行当中完全分离出来，坚持认为它们显然不能结合；但圣灵会为了圣子的功义、通过对父神的信而进入人里面，净化他的内层，直到他自己的意愿；他们将这意愿想象成一个椭圆形的平面。当圣灵的运作靠近这个平面时，它会弯身向左旋转，根本不会触碰它。因此，这人本性的内层或上面部分是为了神，外层或下面部分是为了人。所以，人所做的一切，无论善恶，都不会显现在神面前。善事不会显现，因为这是邀功的事；恶事不会显现，因为它是恶的。这二者无论哪一个显现在神面前，都会毁了这个人。既然如此，只要在世人面前小心谨慎，人就可以随心所欲地意愿、思维、谈论和行出任何事了。”
　　我询问他们是否还宣称人可以认为神并非全在和全知。我从天上被告知，这也是他们所允许的，因为对已获得信并由此洁净、称义的人而言，神不会注意他这一方的思维和意愿，他仍在其内在核心，抑或心智或本性的高层区域保有他通过信的活动所接受的信；并且这信的活动会在人不知不觉的情况下时不时地重现。这些就是小头所代表的事物，当与平信徒交谈时，他们就将小头缩进前半身，插进大头。因为他们和平信徒说话时不用小头，而是用大头，大头前面有一张人脸。他们根据圣言与其谈论爱、仁、善行、十诫、悔改；从圣言引用论及这些主题的几乎一切经文。但在这样做时，他们将小头插进大头中，这使他们从内心认为这些事没有一样是为了神或救赎而做的，而仅仅为了或公或私的利益。
　　“由于他们根据圣言温文尔雅地谈论这些主题，特别是福音、圣灵作工、得救，所以在听众看来，他们似乎很英俊，并且是全世界最有智慧的人。这就是为何你会看到坐在船横板上的男孩女孩将美食和贵重物品送给他们。所以，这些人就是你所看到的海龟所代表的人。在你们的世界，他们很难与其他人区分开来，除了这一事实：他们自认智慧超群并嘲笑他人，包括那些在信方面持类似观点，却不知道他们秘密的人。他们的衣服上有一个标记，他们借此与其他人区别开来。”
　　与我交谈的那人说：“我不会告诉你他们在信的其它问题上所持的观点，如上帝的选民、自由意志、洗礼、圣餐等。这些是他们不会泄露的观点，但我们在天上知道它们。然而，由于他们在世时就是这种人，并且死后任何人都不许心口不一，他们因此只能通过其疯狂的思维言谈，所以他们被视为疯子，并被逐出社群，最后被扔进了启示录（9:2）所提及的无底坑中。他们在那里变成肉体灵，看上去就象埃及木乃伊。由于他们在世时所设的障碍，其心智内层已催生出一层硬皮。他们所组成的地狱社群与马基雅维利主义者所组成的地狱社群接壤。他们经常互相造访，称彼此为同仁。但他们会鉴于其差异而离开马基雅维利主义者，因为他们对因信称义行为有某种宗教情感，而马基雅维利主义者则没有任何宗教原则。
　　目睹他们从自己的社群被逐出，聚在一起准备被扔下去后，我看见一艘七帆船在空中航行，船上的船长和水手身穿紫袍，帽子上饰有华丽的桂冠。他们大声叫喊：“看哪，我们在天堂；我们是最高级的紫衣博士，因为我们是欧洲所有神职人员中最有智慧的人。”我想知道是怎么回事，被告知，它们是骄傲和被称为幻想的假想的形像。这幻想是由那些之前显为海龟的人所产生的；他们因发疯而被逐出社群，故现在聚成一体站在一个地方。这时，我想和他们谈谈，于是就靠近他们所站的那个地方，向他们致意。我说：“你们就是那些将人的内在与外在分开，还将圣灵在信之内的作工和圣灵在信之外与人的合作分开，从而将神与人分开之人吗？你们这样做，岂不是将仁爱本身和仁爱行为从信那里移除了？就象很多其他学识渊博的神职人员所做的那样，并且还将信本身从人那里夺走，以至于人无法在神面前展示这信。
　　“不过，你们是愿意我凭理性与你们谈论这个问题，还是愿意我凭圣经谈论？”“先凭理性谈谈吧。”他们说。于是我发言说：“人的内在怎会与外在分离呢？凭普遍感知，谁看不出，或不能看出，人内层的一切会延伸，并持续延伸到他的外层，甚至直达他的最外层，以便实现它们的结果，产生它们想要的行为？内在必为外在而存在，以便内在能终结于外在，并止于其上，从而持续存在，就象柱子立于其基座之上那样。你们能明白，若非它们是连续的，并因此联结起来，最外层必象空中的气泡那样崩塌和破裂。谁能否认，神在人里面进行几十亿次的内在运作，而人却浑然不知？知道它们对人有何帮助呢？人只需关注这最外层，也就是他及其思维和意愿与神同在之处。
　　“我举例说明这一点：有谁知道人在讲话时所牵涉的内在运作？如肺如何吸气，并将其充入肺泡、支气管和肺叶；他如何将气排到气管，在那里将它转变为声音；声音如何在喉咙的帮助下在声门中调节；然后舌头如何将它清晰地表达出来，嘴唇如何完成发音，从而使它变成言语。所有这些内在运作，人全然不知，它们岂不是为了最终的结果，也就是使人能讲话而存在吗？若将这些内在运作中的任何一个环节拿走或分离出去，以致它不再与最终结果相连续，人岂不象一块木头那样无法说话了吗？
　　“再举一个例子：两只手形成人体末端。但与它们形成持续联结的内在部位却从头经过脖子、然后到胸腔、肩胛骨、手臂和前臂；还有无数肌肉组织，无数运动纤维，无数神经和血管，众多骨关节及其韧带和隔膜。人对这些事物又了解多少呢？然而，手的动作却离不开其中任何一个环节。假如这些内在部位在接近腕关节时朝左或右扭回去，而不是继续前行，手岂不会从前臂掉下来，象从身体撕下来并失去生命的部位那样烂掉吗？或者你们愿意这样想也可以，这就象是人被斩首后身体的情形。如果关乎信和仁的神性运作中途停止，没有一刻不停地延伸到人那里，那么人的心智，连同它的两种生命，即意愿和理解力，也会出现同样的情形。显然，此时人不仅成了动物，甚至成了朽木。上述观点都合乎理性。
　　“如果你们还愿意听，这些事同样与圣经相符。主岂不是说：
　　你们要常在我里面，我也常在你们里面。我是葡萄树，你们是枝子。常在我里面的，我也常在他里面，这人就多结果子。（约翰福音15:4，5）
　　当然，果子岂不是主藉着人所做，并且人在主的引导下凭自己所做的好行为吗？主还说：
　　祂站在门外叩门，若有开门的，祂要进到他那里去，主与他，他与主，一同坐席。（启示录3:20）
　　主不是赐金钱和才干给人，让他做买卖赚钱吗？祂岂不是照他的赢利赐给他永生吗？（马太福音25:14－34；路加福音19:12－26）
　　还有：
　　祂不是照各人在祂的葡萄园里所做的工给各人工钱吗？（马太福音20:1－16）
　　这些只是几个例子而已。从圣言当中可引用好几页纸的经文来说明：人当像树那样结果子，当照诫命而行，当爱神爱邻，诸如此类。
　　“不过，我知道，你们自己的才智就本质而言，与圣言的这些教导毫无共同之处。尽管你们谈论它们，但你们的观念却败坏了它们。你们不得不如此，因为你们将属于神、关系到交流与结合的一切从人那里夺走了。如此，岂不只剩下与公众敬拜有关的一切事物了吗？”后来，这些人在天堂之光中向我显现，这光使每个人的真面目暴露无遗。这时，他们不再像之前那样乘船在空中航行，仿佛在天堂，也不再身穿紫袍、头戴桂冠，而是站在沙地上，衣衫褴褛，腰间束着像渔网那样的网状物，透过这网能看到他们赤裸的身体。然后，他们被遣送到与马基雅维利主义者的社群相接壤的社群。（上册完）

真实的基督教 #462 （火能翻译，2015）

462. 第四個經歷:

在心靈世界, 我向海岸望去, 見到一座壯觀的港口。靠近後, 我往裡想看個究竟。有大大小小的船隻, 載著各樣不同的貨物。男孩女孩們坐在船上, 將貨物分發給想要的人。他們說:"我們正在等那些可愛的海龜。它們將很快從海裡上到我們這裡。"

然後, 我看見海龜們, 大大小小的, 背上趴著小海龜崽們, 四處環顧周邊的島嶼。海龜父親們有兩個頭, 大頭被如同身上的殼包著, 令它們看起略帶紅色。另一個小頭的大小如同正常的海龜頭, 能縮進到身體的前部, 還能塞進大頭裡, 讓人看不見。

我定睛看那些紅色的大頭, 觀察到這些頭長著人一樣的臉。它們與船上的男孩女孩們談話, 並舔他們的手。男孩女孩們撫摸它們, 給它們美食佳餚, 還有貴重物品, 例如做衣裳的絲綢,做桌子的柏木, 裝飾用的紫布, 染布用的猩紅染料等。

[2]看到這些, 我很想知道它們代表什麼意義, 因為我知道心靈世界中一切的眼見都是對應和代表, 對應和代表著情感與思維產生的屬靈效果。於是天上有聲音對我說:"你自己知道港口與船隻所代表的意義, 以及船上的男孩女孩表示什麼。只是你不知道這些海龜代表什麼。"

他們繼續說:"海龜代表心靈世界中這樣的牧師:將信與義(以及義行)完全分開, 內心自我堅稱信與義無半點相連接的可能性, 而是聖靈進入一個人裡面並潔淨人的內在, 直到潔淨人的意志。他們將人的意志想像成某種平臺, 當聖靈的作工臨到這個平臺時, 只是順著平臺左弦掠過卻絲毫未碰到平臺。他們認為, 在人的品性中, 內在或更高的部分, 屬於上帝; 外在或更低的部分屬於人。因此, 人所做的任何事情,無論善惡都不會顯於上帝面前。善事不會, 因為人會為了邀功而行善; 惡事不會, 因為它們是惡的。不管哪一種, 如果呈現在主的面前, 將會毀了此人。因此, 一個人可以去願意,思考,談論和進行任何他所樂意的事情, 只要他在世人面前小心謹慎便是。"

[3]我問:"認為上帝並非全在與全知, 可以允許他們這樣想嗎？"

從天上有人告訴我, 涉及到他們時, 這也是許可的。因為這些人相信, 人若有信並被潔淨和稱義, 上帝便不關注他們所思想或意志的任何事情。這樣的人, 在他們思想或品性的內在核心或更高區域仍保留著最初接受的信(那時他們自認為已經歷了信的潔淨活動)。這些人相信, 在某個時候, 信的潔淨活動會不知不覺地再次臨到他們。

"這些觀念就是小頭所代表的意思。當他們與平信徒講話時, 將小頭縮回到身體前部, 還能插進大頭裡。他們不用小頭與平信徒談話, 而是用大頭(頭的前部長得像人臉)。他們以聖言為根據與平信徒交談, 討論愛,義,善行,十誡,悔改。所談的話題, 他們幾乎都能從聖言中引用經文來支持。在他們的小頭裡(藏在大頭之中), 他們私下相信, 無需為了上帝或為了得救去做上述話題所論之事, 只是為了或公或私的利益才去做。

[4]"因為他們以聖言為基礎溫文爾雅地談論這些主題, 特別是關於福音,聖靈作工,得救時, 在聽眾看來, 他們就像是世上最美之人, 比其他任何人的智慧都高。這就是為何你看到船上的男孩女孩將美食和貴重物品送給他們。

"因此, 這就是你看到的海龜所代表的人。在你們的世界, 他們很難從眾人中分別出來, 除非從事實中看出他們自認智慧超群並取笑他人; 還包括那些在信仰上持類似觀念,不表露自己所信的奧秘之人。他們的衣服上戴著徽章, 以此來與其他人區分。"

[5]與我談話的那人說:"我就不告訴你他們在信的其它事情上的意見, 例如預定揀選,自由選擇,洗禮,聖餐等。這些方面的主張, 他們並不顯露給人知道, 但是我們在天上知道。

"在世時他們就是如此。因為人死後只能講自己真實所想之話, 所以他們無法控制地說出所想的瘋狂事情。他們被認為瘋了, 於是被逐出所在的社群, 最終被扔進無底坑(啟示錄9:2), 成為無思想的肉體之靈, 看起來就像埃及的木乃伊。硬質皮層逐漸蓋上他們思想的內部, 因為在世時他們也在那裡設置了屏障。

"他們在地獄形成的社群毗鄰于馬基雅維利主義者(不擇手段者)。他們常造訪相鄰的社群, 並稱他們為夥伴。不過, 結果還是離開他們, 因為兩者之間有所分別:他們擁有唯信稱義的宗教情感, 而馬基雅維利主義者卻沒有這些宗教情感。"

[6]看到他們從所在的社群被逐出, 並被聚攏準備下投之時, 我見到空中一艘七帆的船隻在空中航行。船上的船長與水手們身穿紫色長袍, 帽上裝飾著華麗的桂冠。他們大聲叫道:"看, 我們在天上！我們是紫衣博士, 比任何其他人的榮譽更高, 因為我們是歐洲所有牧師中最有智慧的一群。"

我納悶這是怎麼一回事。於是被告知, 是由之前顯現為海龜的那些人造成的幻象, 來自於他們的自大與假想。他們被視為發瘋而逐出所在的社群, 現在被聚集站在某地。

那時, 我想與他們交談。我趕往他們所在之地, 問候他們, 然後說:"你們就是那些將人的內在與外在分開之人, 還將聖靈在信之中的作工和聖靈與人在信之外的合作分開, 因而將上帝與人分開？在這種情況下, 你們不僅將義和義行與信分開, 正如其它牧師中的學者所做的; 而且, 你們還拿走信, 以至於人無法向上帝展示其信。

[7]"你喜歡我與你們談論這個主題時, 憑理性之光, 還是引用聖言？"

他們回答:"從理性入手吧"。

於是我說:"一個人的內在與外在如何能分離？毫無疑問, 每一個人基於普遍認知都看見(至少能看見), 一個人內在的一切延伸,並持續延伸到他的外在, 甚至達到他的最外在層次, 以至產生它們的效果和完成它們想去做的。當然, 人的外部是為了內部而存在, 給它一個終端, 並有所依靠, 為了將存在延續, 如同柱子立在根基上。

"你可以看出, 如果不是連續和相連的, 最外層將會崩潰, 如同空中的氣泡破裂。上帝在人裡面執行成千上萬次的過程, 人毫無覺察。知道這些又有何幫助呢？人當關注的, 是在最外部區域, 自己的所思所願與上帝同在。

[8]"我用一個例子來說明此點:毫無疑問, 沒有哪個知道與他講話相關的內在功能吧？例如, 肺如何吸氣, 填充肺泡,支氣管與肺葉; 他如何將氣排到氣管, 在那裡轉變為聲音; 聲音如果借助喉嚨的幫助而在聲門中修改; 然後舌頭如何清楚地表達出來; 嘴唇如何完成清楚的發音, 以至於講話的產生。人們並不知情的這些內在功能, 為了一個外在功能而存在:能讓人說話。中斷或分離那些內在與外在功能的任何一個環節, 人就如同一塊木頭那樣不再能說話了。

[9]"再舉一個例子:兩隻手形成人身體的末端。但是內在的部分形成一個持續的連結, 從頭經過脖子,然後到胸腔,肩胛骨,臂與肘; 有無數個肌肉組織, 無數條運動纖維, 無數捆神經和血管, 眾多關節與其韌帶與隔膜。有誰會意識到這些？但其中任何一個環節都是為了令手能夠活動。設想一下, 這些內在的部件達到手腕後, 便繞著手腕向左或向右轉來扭去卻不延續到手, 手不就像個斷開的東西懸掛在前臂上, 然後爛掉？事實上, 你信不信都好, 這樣的手就如同被砍掉頭的身子。

"人的思想, 與生命的兩種形式(意志和認知)之間的關係也是如此:如果關於信與義的神性功能在中途停止, 而不是連續不斷地延伸到人, 那麼可以肯定, 人不僅僅變成了畜牲, 甚至成了腐木。

"上面的觀點就是遵循理性的路線。

[10]"如果你們還願意聽, 這些事情與聖言其實是相符的。主說:'你們要常在我裡面, 我也常在你們裡面。我是葡萄樹, 你們是枝子。常在我裡面, 我也常在他裡面, 這人就多結果子'(約翰福音15:4-5)。當然, 果子就是主藉著人所做的好行為, 人在主的引領下自己行出來。主還說, 祂站在門口叩門, 開門的, 祂就進到他那裡去, 主與他,他與主, 一同坐席(啟示錄3:20)。主不是賜金錢和才能, 讓人以此去交易並獲利, 不是按照他的贏利來賜人永生嗎(Matthew 25:14-34;路加福音19:12-26)？還有, 祂不是按各人在主的葡萄園內所做之工給各人回報嗎(馬太福音20:1-16)？這些只是幾個例子而已, 如果從聖言中引用以下內容, 將會寫滿好多張紙:人當像樹那樣結果子, 當遵照誡命去行, 當愛上帝和鄰舍, 以及其它許多內容。

[11]"不過, 我意識到你們的理解從本質上與這些聖言上引用的內容並無共同之處。儘管你們自己引用這些內容, 你們的觀點卻敗壞它們。你們不得不如此, 因為你們否決了與上帝一起當行的一切事情, 而這些當行之事是人與上帝之間的交流與連接。這樣, 除了一切儀式上的敬拜, 所剩的還有什麼呢？"

過一會兒, 我在天國之光下看他們, 天國之光揭露與顯現出他們真實的面目來。於是, 他們不再像之前乘船在空中航行時那樣, 也不再身穿紫袍頭戴桂冠。而是站在沙地上, 衣衫破露, 像漁夫圍在腰間的網, 能看出他們的赤身。然後, 他們被遣送到毗鄰馬基雅維利主義者的社群中。

上一节　 目录　 下一节

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True Christianity #462 (Rose, 2010)

462. The fourth memorable occurrence. I looked over to a seacoast in the spiritual world. There I saw a magnificent harbor. I went to it and examined it more closely. There were large and small vessels there carrying merchandise of every different kind. Boys and girls were sitting on them distributing the wealth to anyone who wanted it. They said, "We are waiting to see our beautiful sea turtles. They will soon be coming up out of the sea to us. "

Then I saw the sea turtles, large and small. They had little baby sea turtles riding on their shells, looking around at the surrounding islands. The parent turtles had two heads. One head was large and was covered in a shell like the shell on their body, which made them look reddish. The other head was small like a normal turtles head. They would retract this smaller head into the front part of their body. By an unseen method, they would also put this smaller head inside their larger head.

I kept my focus, however, on their large, reddish heads. I noticed that these heads had faces like those of human beings. They were talking with the boys and girls on the seats in the boats and licking the children's hands. Then the boys and girls began stroking the sea turtles and giving them things: rich, wonderful food, and also expensive gifts such as silk for clothing, cypress wood for building material, purple cloth for beautification, and scarlet dye for dying cloth.

[2] When I saw these things, I was eager to know what they meant, because I knew that everything visible in the spiritual world is a correspondence and represents something spiritual having to do with feelings and thoughts.

Then people began talking to me from heaven, saying, "You know what the harbor represents, and also the boats, and the boys and girls on them. You don't know what the sea turtles represent. "

They continued, "The sea turtles represent members of the clergy in the spiritual world who keep their faith completely separate from goodwill and its good works. Inwardly in themselves they assert that there is obviously no connection between faith and goodwill; instead the Holy Spirit enters into us through our faith in God the Father on account of the Son's merit and purifies our inner levels, including our will. As they see it, the human will is like an oval plane. When the action of the Holy Spirit comes near that plane, it veers around it to the left without touching it at all. The inner or higher part of the human character, then, belongs to God, while the outer or lower part is all our own. Nothing that we do appears before God - either good or evil. The good things we do don't appear, because we do them to earn merit; and the evil things we do don't appear, because they are evil. If our doings did appear before God, we would perish on both counts. Therefore we are allowed to intend, think, speak, and do whatever we want as long as we are careful before the world. "

[3] I asked, "Is it acceptable to them to think about God as not being omnipresent or omniscient?"

The people from heaven said, "This is also acceptable as far as they are concerned, because if people have developed faith and have been purified and justified as a result, God doesn't see through to anything they think or intend. Such people keep in the inner core or higher region of their mind or character the faith that they originally accepted when they experienced the purifying operation of faith. Those spirits believe that sometimes the purifying operation of faith can come to us again without our knowing it.

"These beliefs are represented by the small head they pull into the front of their body or else insert into the large head when they are talking to lay people. They don't use their small head to talk to lay people. They use the large one that looks like it has something of a human face on the front of it. They base their conversation with lay people on the Word, discussing love, goodwill, good works, the Ten Commandments, and repentance. From the Word they quote practically everything it has to say on these subjects. Then they insert the small head into the large one. In their small head, they privately believe that all the things just mentioned don't have to be done for God's sake or for the sake of salvation, but just for the sake of public and private benefit.

[4] "Because they say smooth and elegant things based on the Word about these subjects, especially about the good news of the gospel, the actions of the Holy Spirit, and salvation, they appear to the people who hear them to be people of beauty and of greater wisdom than anyone else in the world. That is also why you saw that they were given luxuries and expensive items by the boys and girls sitting on the seats in the boats.

"These then are the people you saw represented as sea turtles. In your world, they are hard to differentiate from others except for the fact that they think they are wiser than everyone else and laugh at others - even people who have a similar view of faith as their own but don't share in their mysteries. They wear a particular insignia on their clothing that they use to identify themselves as set apart from others. "

[5] The person speaking with me said, "I am not going to tell you what they feel on the other topics related to faith: predestination, free choice, baptism, and the Holy Supper. They don't make their views on these topics public, but we in heaven know what they are.

"This is what they are like in the world. After death no one can speak anything except what he or she really thinks. Therefore because they then cannot help speaking the insane things they think, they are considered insane and are thrown out of the communities they are in. Eventually they are sent down into the pit of the abyss mentioned in Revelation 9:2. They become mindlessly earthly spirits. They look like Egyptian mummies. A callus develops over the interiors of their mind, because even in the world they put a boundary around them.

"There is a hellish community of these people right next to the hellish community of Machiavellians. They often go from the one community to the other - they call each other colleagues - but they leave because there is a difference between the two communities: they themselves have some religious spirit based on the act of justification by faith, but there is no religious spirit among the Machiavellians. "

[6] After seeing them being thrown out of the communities they had been in and being gathered together to be sent down, I saw a boat with seven sails flying through the air. In it there were captains and sailors wearing purple robes. They had magnificent laurel wreaths on their caps. They were shouting, "Look at us in heaven! We are doctors decorated with purple and more laureled than all the rest! We are the wisest of all the clergy in Europe!"

I wondered what this could possibly be. I was told that these were the arrogant pictures and mental images called fantasies on the part of the people I had seen before as sea turtles and more recently as insane people being thrown out of their former communities and gathered together in one place.

At that point I felt an urge to talk to those people. I went to the place where they were staying, greeted them, and said, "Are you the people who see our inner and our outer levels as being disconnected; who see the Holy Spirit's operation on us within the realm of faith as being disconnected from the Holy Spirit's cooperation with us outside the realm of faith; and who therefore see God as being disconnected from us? In that case you have not only taken goodwill and its works away from faith, as many other professors among the clergy have done, but you have also done away with faith itself in the sense that [without goodwill and good works] people have no way to demonstrate their faith to God.

[7] "Let me ask: would you like me to address this issue with you on the basis of reason or on the basis of Sacred Scripture?"

"Start with reason," they said.

So I said, "How can the inner and outer selves in people be disconnected? Surely everyone sees based on general awareness (or is at least able to see) that all the things inside us extend and are continued to the outer parts of us, even into the outermost parts, in order to have their effect and do their work. What is on the outside of us exists for the sake of what is on the inside of us, to give it a place of termination and something to rest on in order to have continued existence, much the way a base supports a column.

"If there were no continuity and connection, the outermost things would fall apart and burst like bubbles in the air. God carries out millions of processes in us that we know nothing about. How would it help us to know about them? All we need is to pay attention to the outermost areas where we and our thinking and willing are together with God.

[8] "I will illustrate this with an example: Do we know the inner functions involved in our speaking? Do we know, for example, how the lungs pull in air and fill the air sacs, bronchial tubes, and lobes with air? Do we know how the lungs expel that air into the trachea and there turn it into sound? Do we know how that sound is modified in our glottis with the help of our larynx? Do we know how the tongue then articulates the sound and the lips complete the articulation so that speaking occurs? All those inner functions, about which we know nothing, exist for the sake of one outer function: enabling us to speak. Break the continuity between any one of those inner functions and the outer functions - could we speak any more than a piece of wood can?

[9] "Take another example: Our hands are two of our extremities. There are inner parts that extend into our hands from our head through our neck, and then through our chest, shoulder blades, upper arms, and lower arms. There are countless muscle tissues, countless arrays of motor fibers, countless troops of nerves and blood vessels, and a number of bone joints with ligaments and membranes involved. Do we know anything about them? And yet every one of them is involved in making our hands work. Suppose that as those inner parts reached our wrist they were sent off in another direction to the left or right and did not run all the way into our hands. Our hands would just dangle from our forearms like disconnected things, bereft of spirit, and rot. In fact, believe it or not, our hands would then be just like a body with its head cut off.

"It would be exactly the same with our mind and its two lives, the will and the intellect, if the divine functions related to faith and goodwill were to stop midway and not extend all the way into us. Truly, if that were the case we would be less than brutes; we would be mere pieces of dead wood shot through with rottenness.

"The points just made follow the lines of reason.

[10] "Now - if you are still willing to listen to me - the same points also accord with Sacred Scripture. The Lord says, 'Live in me and I [shall live] in you. I am the vine and you are the branches. Those who live in me and I in them bear much fruit' (John 15:4-5). Surely those fruits are the good works that the Lord does through us and that we do on our own from the Lord. The Lord also says that he is standing at our door and knocking, and that if we open it, he will come in and will dine with us and we with him (Revelation 3:20). The Lord gives us money and talents so that we will trade with them and make a profit, and if we make a profit he gives us eternal life (Matthew 25:14-30; Luke 19:12-26). The Lord gives us all a reward according to our labor in his vineyard (Matthew 20:1-16). But these passages are just a few. Whole volumes could be filled with quotations from the Word that say we are to produce fruit like a tree, to work on following the commandments, to love God and our neighbor, and more.

[11] "I am aware, however, that your own intelligence as it truly is cannot have anything in common with these quotations from the Word. Although you yourselves quote them, your ideas nonetheless pervert them. You cannot help it, because you deny that anything having to do with God could be shared with or joined to humankind. What then is left but all the rituals of worship?"

Later on I saw them in the light of heaven, which uncovers and manifests what people are really like. Then they did not seem as they had before. They were not flying through the air in a ship, as though through heaven itself. They did not look like they had fine purple robes or laurel wreaths on their heads. They were instead in a sandy place in clothes made out of rags, with something like fishnets wrapped around their waists that still showed their nakedness. Then they were sent down to the community near the Machiavellians.

True Christian Religion #462 (Chadwick, 1988)

462. The fourth experience ¹

In the spiritual world I looked towards the sea-coast and saw a splendid port. On approaching I looked inside and there lay boats both great and small, containing cargoes of every kind; and on their thwarts sat boys and girls who distributed the goods to any that wished. 'We are waiting,' they said, 'for our lovely turtles to appear. They will come out of the sea to us at any moment.'

Then I saw turtles, both small and great, on whose shells and scales sat baby turtles, all looking towards the surrounding islands. The father turtles had two heads, a large one covered with shell like that of their bodies, which gave them a ruddy look; the other a small one of the sort turtles have, which they could draw back into the forepart of their bodies, and could make invisible by inserting it into the larger head. But I kept my gaze on the large, ruddy head, and made out that it had a face like a human being, and was talking with the boys and girls on the thwarts and was licking their hands. The boys and girls fondled them and gave them tit-bits and delicacies, as well as valuable goods such as silk for clothes, citron-wood for tables, purple for ornament and scarlet for dyeing.

[2] On seeing these I wanted to know what they represented, because I know that all sights seen in the spiritual world are correspondences, representing the spiritual effects of affection and the thought it produces. Then I was spoken to from heaven and told: 'You know yourself what the port and the ships represent, as well as the boys and girls on the thwarts; but you do not know what the turtles are. They represent,' they said, 'those of the clergy there who totally separate faith from charity and its good deeds, insisting to themselves that there is obviously no possibility of linking them, but the Holy Spirit by means of faith in God the Father for the sake of the Son's merit enters into a person and purifies him inwardly even as far as his own will, which they imagine as a sort of oval plane. When the working of the Holy Spirit approaches this plane, it twists aside around its left edge without touching it at all, so that the interior or upper part of the person's character is for God, and the exterior or lower part is for man. Thus nothing the person does appears in God's sight, neither good nor bad; the good does not, because this would be to acquire merit, and the bad does not because it is bad. Either of these, if it were presented to God's sight, would destroy the person, Since this is so, a person may will, think, speak and do whatever he pleases, so long as he takes precautions from a worldly point of view,'

[3] I asked whether they also held that one might think of God as not being omnipresent and omniscient. I was told from heaven that this too is allowed them, because in the case of one who has acquired faith and been purified and justified by it, God pays no attention to any thought or will on his part, but he still retains in the inward recess or higher region of his mind or character the faith which he had received by its activity, and that this activity may from time to time recur without the person's knowledge. 'These facts are represented by the small head which they draw back into the forepart of their bodies and also insert into the larger head when talking to laymen. For in speaking to them they do not use the small head, but the large one, the front of which has a kind of human face. Their talk with them is based on the Word, about love, charity, good deeds, the Ten Commandments, repentance; and they quote from the Word almost everything which is said there on these subjects. But then they insert the small head into the large one, which allows them inwardly to understand that these things are not to be done for God's sake or for salvation, but only for the sake of public or private advantage.

[4] 'But because they base their remarks on these subjects on the Word, especially in speaking with great charm and elegance of the Gospel, the working of the Holy Spirit and salvation, they seem to their hearers like handsome men endowed with wisdom beyond all others on the globe. This was why you saw them being given delicacies and valuable goods by the boys and girls sitting on the thwarts in the boats. So these are the people you saw represented as turtles. In your world they are hard to tell apart from others, except for the fact that they think they excel all others in wisdom, laughing at others, including those who hold similar views on faith, but are not privy to their secrets. They carry a seal with them in their clothing, by which they can make themselves known to others of their sort.'

[5] The person talking with me said: 'I shall not tell you their opinions on other matters to do with faith, such as the elect, free will, baptism and the Holy Supper. These are opinions that they do not divulge, though we in heaven know them. However, since this is the sort of people they are in the world, and after death no one is allowed to speak otherwise than he thinks, they are considered insane, because they are then unable to speak except for the mad ideas that fill their thoughts. So they are ejected from their communities, eventually being cast down into the pit of the abyss (mentioned in Revelation 9:2), becoming bodily spirits and looking like Egyptian mummies. A hard skin is drawn over the interiors of their minds, because in the world too they had set up a barrier there. The community they form in hell is adjacent to the one there composed of Machiavellians; they constantly visit one another and call themselves companions. But they leave them on account of their difference, in that they have some religious feeling about the act of justification by faith, while the Machiavellians have none.'

[6] After seeing them expelled from their communities and brought together ready to be cast down, I saw in the air a ship sailing under seven sails, and in it ships' officers and seamen dressed in purple with magnificent laurels on their hats. 'Here we are in heaven,' they shouted, 'we are purple-clad doctors, adorned with finer laurels than anyone else, because we are the leading wise men of all the clergy in Europe.' I wondered what this was, and I was told that they were pictures of pride and imaginary thoughts, known as fantasies, arising from those who previously appeared as turtles; now being cast out of their communities as insane, they were gathered into one group and were now standing in one place.

Then wishing to talk with them I approached the place where they were standing and greeted them. 'Are you,' I said, 'the people who separated people's internals from their externals, and the working of the Holy Spirit as in faith from the Spirit's co-operation with man outside of faith, thus separating God from man? Did you not by this take away not only charity itself and its deeds from faith, as many other doctors of the clergy do, but also faith itself in so far as it is displayed by man in the sight of God?

[7] But would you prefer me to talk to you on this subject by the light of reason, or by drawing upon Holy Scripture?' 'Speak first,' they said, 'by the light of reason.'

So I spoke and said: 'How can a person's internal and external be separated? Can anyone endowed with normal powers of perception fail to see, or fail to be capable of seeing, that all of a person's interiors extend into and are continued into his exteriors, reaching even to his outermost level so as to bring about their effects and perform what they want to do? Surely the internals exist for the sake of the externals, so that these may be where they end, and they may rest on them, so coming into being, very much as a column stands on its base. You can see that, if they were discontinuous and so not joined, the outermost layers would collapse and burst like a bubble in the air. Can anyone deny that the inward workings of God in a person number billions, all unknown to the person concerned; and what profit is it to know about them, so long as the outermost layers are known, the point at which he is in his thought and will together with God?

[8] 'Let us take an example to illustrate this. Surely no one is aware of the inward workings of his speech: how the lungs draw in air, which fills the vesicles, bronchi and lobes; how he expels the air into the trachea and there turns it into sound; how the sound is modified in the glottis by the help of the larynx, and how the tongue then articulates it, the lips completing the articulation, so that speech is produced. All those inward workings, of which the person is totally unaware, are for the sake of the end product, the person's ability to speak. Take away or separate one of those internal processes so that it is no longer continuous with the end product, and a person could no more talk than a block of wood.

[9] 'Let us take another example. The two hands form the extremities of the human body. But the internal parts which form a continuous link with them run from the head through the neck, then the chest, shoulder-blades, arms and elbows; and there are countless muscular tissues, countless rows of motor fibres, countless bundles of nerves and blood-vessels, and many joints of bones with their ligaments and membranes - is anyone aware of any of this? Yet it takes every single one of them to make the hands function. Suppose the internal parts twisted back to the left or the right around the wrist-joint and did not continue into the hands; would not the hand then fall away from the elbow and rot away like any lifeless part torn off? Or if you prefer the idea, it would be like what happens to the body when a person is beheaded. This is exactly what would happen to the human mind, together with its two kinds of life, the will and the understanding, if the Divine workings which have to do with faith and charity stopped mid-way, and did not extend without a break to man. To be sure, man then would be not merely an animal, but a rotten block of wood. Such conclusions are the product of reason.

[10] 'Now if you are willing to listen, the same things are in accordance with Holy Scripture. Does not the Lord say:

Remain in me and I in you. I am the vine and you are the branches. If someone remains in me and I in him, he bears much fruit, John 15:4-5.

Surely the fruits are the good deeds which the Lord does by means of man, and man does of himself under the Lord's guidance. The Lord also says that He stands at the door and knocks, and He goes in to anyone who opens the door, and dines with him and he with the Lord (Revelation 3:20). Does not the Lord give minas and talents for man to trade with and make a profit, and does He not give everlasting life in accordance with his profit (Matthew 25:14-30; Luke 19:13-26)? Or again, does He not give each man his pay in proportion to the work he does in the Lord's vineyard (Matthew 20:1-17)? These are but a few examples; pages could be filled with quotations from the Word showing that man should produce fruit like a tree, should act according to the commandments, love God and the neighbour, and much more besides.

[11] 'But I know that your own intelligence cannot have anything in common, regarded as it is essentially, with these teachings from the Word. Although you talk about them, your ideas pervert them. Nor can you help yourselves, because you take away from man everything that is God's as regards communication and the linking it produces. What is then left, but merely everything that has to do with public worship?'

Later on these people appeared to me in the light of heaven, which uncovers and makes visible what sort of person each one is. Then they did not appear as before in a ship sailing through the air as if in heaven, nor did the people in it have purple clothing and laurels around their heads. But they were in a sandy place, clothed in rags, with nets like fishermen's round their lower parts, through which their nakedness was visible. Then they were sent down to join a community which was adjacent to that of the Machiavellians.

Footnotes:

True Christian Religion #462 (Ager, 1970)

462. Fourth Memorable Relation:

Looking toward the seashore in the spiritual world, I saw a splendid dockyard. I went near and looked into it, and behold, there were large and small vessels, and in them merchandise of every kind, and on benches there were sitting boys and girls distributing the merchandise to all who wanted it.

And they said, "We are waiting to see our beautiful tortoises, which will soon rise up out of the sea to us."

And behold, I saw both large and small tortoises, on the shells and scales of which sat young tortoises looking toward the surrounding islands. The paternal tortoises had two heads, a large one covered over with a shell like the shells on their bodies, which gave them a reddish hue, and a small one, such as tortoises have; this they drew back into the forepart of the body, and also, in some unseen way, inserted into the larger head.

But I kept my eyes on the large red head; and I saw that it had a face like the face of a man, and it talked with the boys and girls on the seats and licked their hands. Then the boys and girls patted them, and gave them food and dainties, and also costly things, such as silk for clothing, thyine-wood for tables, purple for decorations, and scarlet for coloring.

[2] Seeing these things, I wished to know what they represented, as I knew that all things that appear in the spiritual world are correspondences, and represent the spiritual things pertaining to affection and to thought therefrom.

They then spoke to me from heaven and said, "You yourself know what the dockyard represents, and the ships, and the boys and girls that are on them; but you do not know what the tortoises signify." And they said, "The tortoises represent such of the clergy there as altogether separate faith from charity and its good works, affirming in themselves, that there is clearly no conjunction of these, but that the Holy Spirit, through man's faith in God the Father on account of the merit of the Son, enters into man, and purifies his interiors even to his own will; out of which they make a sort of oval plane; and they claim that when the operation of the Holy Spirit comes near this plane, it bends itself around it towards the left and does not touch it at all; so that the inner or higher part of man's nature is for God, and the outer or lower part for man; consequently nothing that man does, whether good or evil, is apparent to God - not the good, because this is a matter of merit, nor the evil, because it is evil, for if either of these were to appear to God, man would perish because of it. And this being so, man is at liberty to will and think and say and do whatever he pleases, provided he is discreet before the world."

[3] I asked whether they also asserted that man is permitted to think of God as not omnipresent and omniscient.

They answered from heaven that this is permitted, for the reason that in a man who has acquired faith, and has been purified and justified thereby, God does not look at anything pertaining to his thought and will, and that he still retains in his inner bosom, or in the higher region of his mind or nature, the faith that he had received in the act of faith, it being sometimes possible for that act to return without man's being conscious of it. "These are the things represented by the small head, which they draw into the forepart of the body, and insert into the larger head when they are talking with the laity, for with them they do not talk from the small head, but from the large one, which in appearance is provided in front with a human face; and with them they talk from the Word about love, charity, good works, the commandments of the Decalogue, and repentance, selecting from the Word almost everything that is there said on these subjects. But in so doing they insert the small head into the large one, and from this they understand inwardly in themselves that none of these things are to be done for the sake of God and salvation, but only for the sake of public and private good.

[4] And inasmuch as they talk about these subjects from the Word, especially about the Gospel, the operation of the Holy Spirit, and salvation, in a pleasing and elegant manner, they seem to their hearers to be handsome men and the wisest in all the world. This is why, as you saw, costly and precious things were given them by the boys and girls who sat upon the benches in the vessels; also why you saw them represented as tortoises. In your world they are but little distinguished from others, except by this, that they imagine themselves the wisest of men, and laugh at others, even at those who entertain a like doctrine of faith but are not in these mysteries. They carry with them on their clothing a certain mark by which they make themselves distinguishable from others."

[5] He who was talking to me said, "I will not tell you what their sentiments are respecting other matters of faith, such as election, freedom of choice, baptism, and the holy supper, which are of such a nature that they do not divulge them; but we in heaven know what they are. But because they are such in the world, and because no one is allowed after death to think one thing and say another, and therefore they can then do no otherwise than speak from the insanities of their thoughts, they are regarded as insane and are expelled from societies, and finally sent down to the bottomless pit spoken of in Revelation (9:2). There they become corporeal spirits, and look like the mummies of the Egyptians. For a callousness has been induced upon the interiors of their minds, owing to the barrier they had interposed when they were in the world. The infernal society composed of them borders upon the infernal society from the Machiavelians, and they pass indiscriminately from one to the other, and call each other fellow-members. But they go back because there is a difference between them, arising from the fact that there has been with them some religious principle respecting the act of justification by faith, while the Machiavelians have no religious principle at all."

[6] After I had seen them expelled from societies and collected together to be cast down, I saw a vessel flying in the air with seven sails, and therein officers and sailors dressed in purple clothing and having splendid laurels on their caps, and shouting, "Lo, we are in heaven; we are purple-robed doctors of the highest degree, since of all the wise men among the clergy in Europe we are the heads."

I wondered what this meant, and was told that they were images of pride and of the visionary thoughts called fantasies, which spring from those who before appeared as tortoises, but these had now been cast out of the societies as insane and gathered into one body and now stood together in one place.

I then wished to speak with them, and therefore went to the place where they were standing and saluted them, and said, "Are you those who have separated the internals of men from their externals, and who have separated the operation of the Holy Spirit, as being in faith, from its cooperation with man outside of faith, and thus you have separated God from man? Have you not thus not only removed charity itself and the works of charity from faith, as many others of the learned clergy have done, but also faith itself from man as to its manifestation before God?

[7] But I pray you, which do you prefer, that I should speak to you on this matter from reason, or from Holy Scripture?"

They said, "Speak first from reason."

And I spoke as follows, "How can the internal man and external man be separated? Who does not see or cannot see from common perception, that all of man's interiors go forth and are continued into his exteriors, and even into his outermosts, in order to work out their effects and produce their works? Are not internals for the sake of externals, that they may terminate in them and find permanence in them, and so come forth, nearly the same as a column rests upon its base? You can see that unless there were a continuation and thus a conjunction, outermosts would dissolve and pass away like bubbles in the air. Who can deny that the interior operations of God in man are myriads of myriads and of these man knows nothing? And what need is there of his knowing about them, provided he knows about the outermosts, in which, with his thought and will, he is together with God?

[8] But this shall be illustrated by an example. Does man understand the interior operations of his speech, as how the lungs draw in the air, and fill the little vessels with it, and the bronchial tubes, and the lobes; how they send out the air into the trachea, and there turn it into sound; how that sound is modified in the glottis with the aid of the larynx; and how the tongue then articulates it, and the lips complete the articulation that it may become speech? Do not all these interior operations, of which man knows nothing, exist for the sake of the outermost, which is that man may have power to speak? Remove or separate one of these internals from its continuity with the outermosts, and could man speak any more than a stock?

[9] Take another example. The two hands are the outermosts of man. Do not the interiors, which are continued thither, come from the head through the neck, also through the chest, the shoulders, the arms, and the forearms? And there are the innumerable muscular textures, innumerable battalions of motor fibers, innumerable combinations of nerves and blood-vessels, and the many bony articulations with their ligaments and membranes. What does a man know about these things? And yet the working of his hands is from each and all of them. Suppose that these interior parts were to turn back to the right or left near the elbow, instead of continuing onward, would not the hand drop down from the forearm and rot like something torn away from the body and deprived of life? If you will believe it, it would be with the hand as it would be with the body if the man were beheaded. It would be precisely the same with the human mind and its two lives, the will and the understanding, if the Divine operations, which are those of faith and charity, were to cease half way and not pass by a continuous course even to the man himself. Clearly man would then be not merely a brute, but a rotten stick. All this is in accordance with reason.

[10] Furthermore, if you will listen, it is also in accordance with the Sacred Scripture. Does not the Lord say,

Abide in Me, and I in you. I am the Vine and ye are the branches. He that abideth in Me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit (John 15:4, 6).

Is not the fruit the good works which the Lord does through man, and man does of himself from the Lord? The Lord also says,

That He stands at the door and knocks, and that He comes in to him that opens, and sups with him, and he with Him (Revelation 3:20).

Does not the Lord give pounds and talents to man to trade with and profit by, and as man profits by them, does He not give him eternal life? (Matthew 25:14-30; Luke 19:13-26).

And again:

That He gives wages to every man according to the labor done in His vineyard (Matthew 20:1-16).

These are but a few passages. Pages might be filled from the Word on this subject, that man ought to bear fruit like a tree, to do according to the commandments, to love God and the neighbor, and so forth.

[11] But I am aware that your self-intelligence is unable to hold to anything such as it is in itself, that is in common with these things from the Word, for although you give utterance to it, your ideas pervert it. And you cannot do otherwise, because you remove from man everything belonging to God as to communication and conjunction. What then remains but to remove all that pertains to worship also?"

Afterward these spirits appeared to me in the light of heaven, which discloses and manifests the character of everyone. And they did not then appear as they did before, in a ship in the air, as if in heaven; neither were they clad in purple robes and crowned with laurel, but in a sandy place, in garments of rags, and girt about the loins with network like fishers' nets, through which their nakedness was visible. And then they were sent down to the society bordering on that of the Machiavellians.

True Christian Religion #462 (Dick, 1950)

462. The fourth experience. I once looked towards the sea-coast in the spiritual world and saw a magnificent harbor. I approached it, and on a nearer view I saw vessels in it both large and small, laden with merchandise of all kinds, which boys and girls, seated on the rowers' benches, were distributing to those who desired. They said: "We are waiting to see our beautiful turtles ¹ which will soon rise out of the sea and come to us." And lo! I saw small and large turtles upon whose scaly shells young turtles were sitting, facing the islands which lay around. The male parent turtles had two heads, a large one covered with a shell like that covering their bodies, from which they emitted a reddish glow, and a smaller one, such as turtles have, which they drew back into the from part of their body and inserted in some unseen way into the larger head. I paid particular attention to the large reddish head and saw that it had a face like a man, and that it talked with the boys and girls who were seated on the benches, and licked their hands. The boys and girls then stroked them, and gave them rich food and also costly articles, as silk for clothes, cedar wood for tables, purple cloth for decorations and scarlet dye for coloring.

[2] On seeing these things I was desirous to learn what they represented, as I knew that all the things that appear in the spiritual world are correspondences, and represent spiritual things relating to affection and thought derived from it. Thereupon some spoke to me from heaven and said: "You know already what is represented by the harbor, the ships and the boys and girls on board, but you do not know what is represented by the turtles;" so they continued: "Turtles represent those of the clergy who entirely separate faith from charity and its good works. They affirm in their own mind that plainly there is no conjunction between them; but that the Holy Spirit, through faith in God the Father for the sake of the Son's merit, enters into and dwells with a man, and purifies his interiors even to his own will. Of this they form a sort of oval plane, and when the operation of the Holy Spirit approaches it, it is turned away round it on the left side and makes no contact with it. In this way the interior or higher part of man's nature is for God, and the exterior or lower for man; so that nothing which a man does, whether good or evil, appears in God's sight, nothing good because it is merit-seeking, and nothing evil because it is evil; for if these were to appear before God man would perish on account of either. This being so, man is at liberty to will, think, speak and act as he pleases, provided he is careful before the world."

[3] I then asked whether they also assert that it is allowable to think of God as not being omnipresent and omniscient. The reply came from heaven: "Even this is allowed them, for God takes no cognizance of anything thought or willed by him who has obtained faith, and is thereby purified and justified; and he still retains in the interior recesses or higher region of his mind or nature the faith which he had received in act, which act may recur at any time, even without his knowledge. These things are represented by the little head which they draw into the from part of their body, and also insert into the large head when they talk with the laity. For they do not speak with these from the small head but from the large one, which appears in front with a face resembling that of a man. Quoting from the Word they converse with them about love, charity, good works, the commandments of the Decalogue and repentance, selecting from the Word almost everything that is there said on these subjects. As at these times they insert the small head into the large one, they inwardly think that all those things are not to be done for the sake of God and salvation, but only with a view to the public and private good.

[4] "Since, however, they speak concerning these things from the Word, especially concerning the Gospel, the operation of the Holy Spirit and the nature of salvation in pleasing and graceful language, they appear to their hearers as handsome men, superior in wisdom to the rest of mankind. For this reason also you saw that sumptuous food and costly articles were given to them by the boys and girls sitting on the benches in the ships. These are they whom you saw represented as turtles. In your world they are scarcely distinguished from others, except in this respect that they fancy themselves superior to all in wisdom; and they laugh at others, even at those who hold a similar doctrine respecting faith, but who are not versed in those mysteries. They carry with them on their clothing a mark by which others recognize them."

[5] He who spoke with me continued: "I will not relate to you what they think concerning the other matters that pertain to faith, such as election, free will, baptism and the Holy Supper. These they do not divulge, but they are known to us in heaven. As this is their nature in the world, and after death no one is allowed to think one thing and say another, therefore, because they cannot do otherwise than utter their insane conceptions, they are regarded as insane and cast out of the societies. They are at length sent down to the pit of the abyss mentioned in the Revelation 9:2, where they become corporeal spirits and appear like Egyptian mummies. For the interiors of their mind contract a certain hardness, because while in the world they had shut these in behind a barrier. The infernal society formed by them borders on that of the Machiavellians, ² and they frequently pass from one to the other, calling themselves companions; but they ultimately withdraw because of this difference, that they have some religious conviction concerning the act of justification through faith, whereas the Machiavellians have none."

[6] After I had seen those spirits cast out from the societies and gathered together to be sent down to the pit, I observed a ship with seven sails flying in the air. The officers and sailors in it were clothed in purple with splendid wreaths of laurel upon their caps, and they called out, "Lo, we are in heaven; we are doctors robed in purple and above all others crowned with laurel, because we are the chief of the wise from all the clergy of Europe." As I wondered what this meant I was told that they were representations of the pride and ideal thoughts, called delusions, of those whom I had before seen as turtles. They were now cast out from the societies as insane, and, gathered into one band, they were standing together in one place. Then, desiring to speak with them, I approached the place where they stood; and having greeted them, I said: "Are you those who have separated the internals of men from their externals, and the operation of the Holy Spirit, as it works in faith, from its co-operation with man, as having nothing to do with faith, and who have thus separated God from man? Have you not in this way removed not only charity itself and its works from faith, like many other teachers among the clergy, but also faith itself from man as to its manifestation in the sight of God?

[7] "I ask you, however, whether you wish me to speak on these matters from reason or from the Sacred Scripture?" They said, "Speak first from reason;" so I spoke as follows: "How is it possible for the internal and the external with man to be separated? Who does not see from common perception, or is unable to see, that all a man's interiors proceed and are continued to his exteriors and even to what is outermost, in order to produce their effects and accomplish their works? Do not internal things exist for the sake of the external, in order that they may terminate in them and subsist in them, and thus exist, like a column on its base? You can see that unless there was continuation and conjunction in this way, what is outermost would be dissolved and dissipated like bubbles in the air. Who can deny that the interior operations of God with man are countless in number, of which man knows nothing? Indeed, what advantage is it for him to know them? He need only know the most external of them, in which with his thought and will he is together with God.

[8] This may be illustrated by an example. A man is not aware of the interior operations involved in speech. The lungs draw in the air and with it fill the vesicles, the bronchia and the lobes; they emit it into the trachea, and there turn it into sound; that sound is modified in the glottis by the aid of the larynx; the tongue then articulates it, and the lips complete the articulation, in order that it may become speech. All these interior operations, of which a man is not conscious, exist for the sake of the most external, that a man may be able to speak. Remove or separate one of these internal operations from its connection with what is outermost and a man would be no more able to speak than a stock.

[9] "Take another example. The two hands are the ultimate parts of man. The interior things which are continued to them descend from the head through the neck, and then through the breast, the shoulders, the arms and the elbows. There are innumerable muscular tissues, innumerable groups of moving fibres, innumerable bundles of nerves and blood vessels, many articulations (ginglymi) of bones ³ with their ligaments and membranes. Of these, the man is utterly unconscious, and yet the hands depend upon them all collectively and singly, for their power to act. If these interior things were deflected to the left or right at the elbow and were not continued into the hand, the hand would fall off from the joint and putrefy, dismembered and lifeless. Indeed, as you may well suppose, it would be with the hand as with the body when a man is beheaded. It would be so also with the human mind and with its two principles of life (lives), the will and the understanding, if the Divine operations relating to faith and charity should cease midway in their course and not continue till they reached man. Man would then of a surety be not only a brute but a rotten tree-trunk. These things are according to reason.

[10] "Now, if you will hear, the same are also according to the Sacred Scripture. The Lord says:

"Abide in me, and I in you... I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit" John 15:4-5.

Fruits are the good works which the Lord performs through man, and which man does of himself from the Lord. Again the Lord says,

that He stands at the door and knocks, and that He enters to him that opens, and sups with him, and he with Him, Revelation 3:20.

The Lord gives pounds and talents, that men may trade with them and make profit; and, in proportion to such profit, that He may give him eternal life, Matthew 25:14-30; Luke 19:13-26.

And again,

He gives wages to every one according to the work which he does in His vineyard, Matthew 20:1-17.

These are only a few passages; for pages might be filled with quotations from the Word insisting that a man ought to bear fruit like a tree, that he ought to act according to the commandments, love God and the neighbor, and more to the same effect.

[11] I know, however, that your own intelligence cannot conceive of anything which in its real meaning is in harmony with those passages from the Word; and although you quote them, still your ideas pervert them. You cannot do otherwise, because you remove from man all things of God that regard communion and consequent conjunction with Him. What then remains, but to remove also all things of worship?"

I now saw the assembled spirits with the light of heaven shining upon them. This clearly reveals the true nature of every one; and they appeared no longer as if in heaven in a ship sailing in the air, robed in purple and crowned with laurel. They were now seen to be in a sandy desert, clad in rags, and girt about their loins with nets like those used by fishermen, through which their nakedness appeared. They were then sent down to the society that borders upon the Machiavellians.

Footnotes:

Vera Christiana Religio #462 (original Latin,1770)

462. Quartum Memorabile. Prospexi ad Oram maritimam in Mundo spirituali; et vidi magnificum Navale; accessi, et introspexi, et ecce ibi Navigia magna et parva, et in illis merces omnis generis, et super transtris sedentes Pueri et Puellae distribuentes volentibus: et dixerunt, exspectamus videre pulchras nostras Testudines (Skillepadda), ¹ quae jamjam e mari ad nos exsurgent: et ecce vidi Testudines parvas et magnas, super quarum conchis et squamis sedebant Testudines infantes, quae spectabant ad Insulas circum. Testudines patres habebant bina Capita, unum magnum, circumductum concha simili conchae corporis illarum, unde rutilabant, et alterum parvum, quale est testudinibus, quod retrahebant in anteriora corporis, et quoque insertabant modo inconspicuo Capiti majori: sed tenebam oculos in Magno Capite rutilo, et vidi quod hoc haberet faciem sicut homo, et loqueretur cum pueris et puellis super transtris, et lamberet manus eorum, et tunc pueri et puellae palpabant illos, et dabant illis edulia et opipara, et quoque pretiosa, ut holosericum ad vestes, lignum thyinum ad tabulas, purpuram ad decorationes, et Coccinum ad infucationes. ²

[2] His visis, desiderabam scire, quid illa repraesentabant, quia novi quod omnia quae in Mundo spirituali apparent, sint Correspondentiae, et repraesentent spiritualia quae affectionis et inde cogitationis sunt; et tunc loquebantur mecum e Coelo, et dicebant, nosti ipse quid repraesentat Navale, tum quid Navigia, ut et quid Pueri et Puellae super illis, sed non scis quid Testudines; et dixerunt; Testudines repraesentant illos e Clero ibi, qui prorsus separant Fidem a Charitate et ejus bonis operibus, affirmantes apud se, quod plane non sit aliqua conjunctio, sed quod Spiritus sanctus per Fidem in Deum Patrem propter meritum Filii, intret apud hominem, ac purificet interiora ejus usque ad propriam Voluntatem ejus, ex qua faciunt sicut Planum ovale, et quod cum operatio Spiritus sancti ad illud Planum appropinquat, a parte ejus sinistra ³ circum id deflectat se et prorsus illud non tangat, et quod ita Pars interior seu superior ingenii hominis sit pro Deo, et quod Pars exterior seu inferior sit pro homine, et sic quod non appareat coram ⁴ Deo aliquid, quod homo facit, neque bonum neque malum; non bonum, quia hoc est meritorium, et non malum, quia hoc est malum; quoniam si illa apparerent coram Deo, homo ex utroque periret: et quia ita est, quod liceat homini velle, cogitare, loqui et facere, quicquid lubet, modo caveat sibi pro Mundo;

[3] quaesivi, num etiam asserant, quod liceat cogitare de Deo, quod non Omnipraesens et Omniscius sit; dixerunt e Coelo, quod hoc quoque illis liceat, quia Deus apud illum, qui Fidem adeptus est, et per illam purificatus et justificatus, non videt ad aliquod cogitationis et voluntatis ejus, et quod usque retineat in sinu interiori aut regione superiori mentis suae seu ingenii Fidem, quam in actu ejus receperat, et quod ille actus quandoque possit redire, homine nesciente. Haec sunt, quae repraesentat CAPUT PARVUM, quod in anteriora corporis intrahunt, et quoque insertant CAPITI MAGNO, dum loquuntur cum Laicis; nam ex Parvo Capite non loquuntur cum illis, sed ex Magno, quod antrorsum apparet sicut facie humana praeditum, et loquuntur cum illis ex Verbo de Amore, de Charitate, de Bonis operibus, de Praeceptis Decalogi, de Poenitentia, et ex Verbo desumunt paene omnia quae ibi sunt de illis; sed tunc insertant Caput parvum in Magnum, ex quo intus apud se intelligunt, quod omnia illa non facienda sint propter Deum et salutem, sed modo propter Bonum publicum et privatum.

[4] Verum quia loquuntur ⁵ de illis ex Verbo, imprimis de Evangelio, Operatione spiritus sancti, et Salvatione, suaviter et eleganter, ideo apparent auditoribus sicut homines pulchri, et prae reliquis in terrarum Orbe sapientes; quare etiam vidisti, quod data illis essent a pueris et puellis sedentibus super transtris navigiorum opipara et pretiosa: Hi itaque sunt, quos repraesentatos vidisti ut Testudines. In Mundo tuo parum dignoscuntur ab aliis, solum per id, quod credant se omnibus sapientiores esse, ac rideant alios, et quoque illos qui in simili doctrina quoad Fidem sunt, sed non in illis arcanis: sigillum quoddam secum in veste ferunt, ex quo se faciunt ab aliis internosci.

[5] Dixit loquens cum me, non dicam tibi quid sentiunt de caeteris rebus Fidei, ut quid de Electione, de Libero arbitrio, de Baptismo, et de Sacra Coena, quae sunt talia, quae non evulgant, sed nos in Coelo scimus. Verum, quia tales sunt in Mundo, et post mortem non licet alicui loqui aliter, quam cogitat, ideo quia tunc non possunt aliter quam loqui ex insaniis cogitationum suarum, reputantur ut insani, ac ejiciuntur e Societatibus, et tandem demittuntur in Puteum abyssi, de quo in Apocalypsi 9:2, et fiunt Spiritus corporei, et apparent sicut Aegyptiorum Mumia; callus enim inductus est interioribus Mentis eorum, quia in Mundo etiam interposuerunt sepem. Societas infernalis ex illis est in confinio ad Societatem infernalem ex Machiavelistis, ac intrant passim ab una in alteram, et vocant se Sodales, sed exeunt, quia diversitas est, ex eo, quod aliquod Religiosum de actu justificationis per fidem apud illos fuerit, sed non aliquod apud Machiavelistas.

[6] Postquam vidi illos ejectos ex Societatibus, et collectos ut dejicerentur, vidi Navigium in aere cum septem velis volans, et inibi naucleros et nautas indutos veste purpurea, habentes super pileis magnificas laurus, clamantes, en nos in Coelo; sumus Doctores ⁶ purpurati, et prae omnibus laureati, quia sumus Capita sapientum ex omni Clero in Europa. Miratus sum quid hoc, et dictum est mihi quod essent imagines fastus, ac cogitationes ideales, quae vocantur phantasiae, ex illis, qui prius visi sunt ut Testudines, et nunc ut insani ejecti e Societatibus, et in unum collecti, ac starent simul in uno loco: et tunc desiderabam loqui cum illis, et accessi ad locum ubi stabant, et salutabam illos, et dicebam, estis vos qui separavistis Interna hominum ab Externis illorum, ac Operationem Spiritus sancti sicut in Fide a cooperatione Ejus cum homine extra Fidem, et sic separavistis Deum ab homine; annon vos ita non modo removistis ipsam Charitatem et ejus Opera a fide, sicut multi alii Doctores e Clero, sed etiam ipsam Fidem quoad manifestationem ejus coram Deo ab homine;

[7] sed quaeso, Numeri velitis, ut de illa re loquar vobiscum ex Ratione, vel num ex Scriptura Sacra; dixerunt, loquere primum ex Ratione; et loquutus sum, dicens; quomodo potest Internum et Externum apud hominem separari; quis non ex communi perceptione videt, aut videre potest, quod omnia Interiora hominis pergant et continuentur in Exteriora, et usque in extrema ejus ut efficiant effectus suos, et operentur opera sua; suntne Externa propter Interna, ⁷ ut desinant in illa, et subsistant in illis, et sic existant, vix aliter quam sicut columna super stylobata sua; potestis videre, quod nisi continuatio foret, et sic conjunctio, extrema dissolverentur, ac diffluerent sicut bullae in aere: quis negare potest, quin interiores operationes Dei apud hominem sint myriades myriadum, de quibus homo nihil scit, et quid juvat illa scire, modo sciat extrema, in quibus cum sua cogitatione et voluntate cum Deo simul est.

[8] Sed hoc illustrabitur per Exemplum: num scit homo interiores operationes loquelae suae, ut quomodo Pulmo attrahit aerem, et illo implet vesiculas, bronchias, et lobos; quomodo illum aerem emittit in Trachiam, et ibi vertit illum in sonum, quomodo sonus ille in glottide ope laryngis modificatur, et quomodo lingua dein articulat illum, et labia articulationem complent, ut fiat loquela; nonne omnes illae interiores operationes, de quibus homo nihil scit, sunt propter extremum, ut homo possit loqui; remove aut separa unum ex internis illis a suo continuo cum extremis, num homo potuisset loqui plus quam stipes.

[9] Sit adhuc exemplum; binae Manus sunt ultima hominis; nonne Interiora, quae illuc continuantur, sunt a Capite per Cervicem, tum per Pectus, Scapulas, Brachia et Ulnas, suntque innumeri musculares textus, innumerae phalanges fibrarum motricium, innumeri manipuli nervorum et vasorum sanguineorum, ac plures ginglymi ossium cum suis ligamentis et membranis; num homo aliquid de illis scit, et tamen operantur Manus ejus ex omnibus et singulis illis: suppone, quod interiora illa circa poplitem manus se sinistrorsum aut dextrorsum reflecterent, et non per continuum intrarent; annon manus ab ulna decideret, ac sicut aliquod avulsum inanimatum putresceret; imo si vultis credere, foret sicut cum corpore, si homo decollaretur. Prorsus simile foret cum Mente humana, ac cum binis ejus Vitis, Voluntate et Intellectu, si Divinae Operationes, quae Fidei et Charitatis sunt, desinerent in media via, et non usque ad hominem per continuum tenderent; sane foret tunc homo non modo brutum, sed putris stipes: ⁸ haec sunt secundum rationem.

[10] Nunc si vultis audire, eadem etiam sunt secundum Scripturam Sacram; annon Dominus dicit, Manete in Me, et Ego in vobis; Ego sum Vitis et vos palmites; qui manet in Me, et Ego in illo, hic fert fructum multum, Johannes 15:4-5; ⁹ numne fructus sunt bona Opera, quae Dominus facit per hominem, et homo ex se a Domino. Dominus etiam dicit, Quod stet ad ostium et pulset, et quod ad illum qui aperit, ingrediatur, ac coenet cum illo et ille cum Ipso, Apocalypsis 3:20. Annon Dominus dat minas et talenta, ut homo negotietur cum illis, et lucretur, et quod sicut lucratur, det vitam aeternam, Matthaeus 25:14-30, ¹⁰ Luca 19:12-26. ¹¹ Tum, Quod mercedem det cuivis secundum laborem in Vinea Ipsius, Matthaeus 20:1-16: ¹² sed haec pauca sunt; possunt Membranae impleri ex Verbo, de eo, quod homo facturus sit fructus sicut arbor, operaturus sit secundum praecepta, amaturus Deum et proximum, et plura.

[11] Sed scio, quod propria Intelligentia vestra cum illis quae ex Verbo sunt, non possit tale commune habere, quale est in se, quae tametsi loquimini, usque ideae vestrae pervertunt illa: et vos non potestis aliter, quia removetis omnia Dei ab homine quoad communicationem et inde conjunctionem; quid tunc superest, nisi etiam omnia Cultus. Postea illi mihi visi sunt in luce Coeli, quae detegit et manifestat, qualis quisque est; et tunc non visi sicut ¹³ prius in Navigio in aere quasi in Coelo, nec inibi purpurati quoad vestes, ac laureati quoad caput, sed in loco arenoso, ¹⁴ in vestibus ex frustis, ac cincti retibus quasi piscatoriis circum lumbos, trans quae nuditates illorum apparebant; et tunc demissi sunt in Societatem, quae in confinio ad Machiavelistas erat.

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