79.记事四：
有一次，我在思索宇宙的创造时，一些来自基督教界的灵人靠近我。在他们那个时代，这些人都是最有名的哲学家，以非凡的智慧着称。他们说：“我们发觉你在思考创造，请告诉我们你对这个问题的想法。”“先说说你们的想法吧。”我答道。其中一个说：“我们认为创造来自大自然，因而是大自然创造了它自己，它自永恒就存在。因为真空不存在，也不可能存在。然而，我们眼睛所看到的、耳朵所听到的、鼻子所闻到的、胸中所呼吸的，除了自然还有什么？自然在我们之外，故也在我们之内。”
另一位闻言说：“你谈到了自然，并视其为宇宙的创造者，但你不知道自然如何变成宇宙。让我来告诉你，它将自己卷成漩涡，像云一样碰撞在一起，或像房屋在地震中塌陷。”他解释说，这样的碰撞使得密度更大的物质聚在一起形成地球；更易于流动的部分则分离出来并汇成海洋；更轻的部分也分离出来形成以太和空气，最轻的则形成太阳。“难道你没见过油、水和尘土混在一起时，它们是如何自发分离出来，并井然有序地一层浮在另一层之上的吗？”
然后，另一位听众说：“你所说的纯粹是想象。人人都知道，万物最初的源头是混沌。混沌的规模足以容纳整个宇宙的四分之一，它当中是火，火周围是以太，以太周围是物质。该混沌裂开，然后火从裂缝中喷发出来，就象从埃特纳或维苏威火山喷发出来，从而形成太阳。接着，以太膨胀并向周围扩散，形成大气。最后剩下的物质浓缩成一个球体，形成大地。至于众星，它们不过是浩瀚宇宙中的光点，这光点源于太阳及其热和光。因为起初，这太阳就象一个火海，但为避免烧毁地球，它从自身迸出火花，这些火花就安扎在周围空间，从而通过形成穹苍而使宇宙完整。
不过，有一位旁观者说：“你们错了。你们自以为聪明，我却觉得你们很简单。然而，我单纯地相信，现在仍旧相信：宇宙是神创造的；并且因自然是宇宙的一部分，故神在创造宇宙的同时，也创造了整个自然。如果自然创造了自己，它岂不自永恒就存在？这简直是胡说八道！”这时，其中一位所谓的智者冲上来，逐渐靠近那位发言者，并将左耳贴近对方的嘴巴（他的右耳被棉花样的东西塞住了），问他说了些什么。那人将刚才说的话重复了一遍，然后这位“智者”环顾四周，想看看有没有牧师在场。他忽然发现发言者旁边就有一位，于是转过身去说：“我也承认整个自然界来自神，不过嘛……，”他边离开边向他的同伴低语说：“我这样说是因为有牧师在场。你们和我都知道自然来自自然，因此自然就是神，我说整个自然来自神，只是……。”
但牧师听见他们在嘀咕什么，就说：“你们的智慧无非是哲学，它已使你们误入歧途，并彻底关闭你们心智的内层，以至于来自神及其天堂的光无法穿透进来，给你们带来启示。你们已将那光扑灭。所以请想一想，”他继续说，“你们自己再确定一下你们那不朽的灵魂到底源自哪里。难道它们来自自然，亦或被包含在那大能的混沌中？
听到这里，第一个人离开去向他的同伴求助，以解决这个棘手的问题。他们得出的结论是，人的灵魂无非是以太，思维无非是阳光造成的以太的改变，而以太是自然的一部分。他们说：“谁不知道我们借助空气说话？思维不就是更纯空气中的话语吗？而这更纯的空气就是所谓的以太。因此，思维和话语行如一体。谁都能在小孩子身上发现这一点。小孩子先学习说话，然后逐渐学习与自己说话，这就是思维。那么，思维岂不是以太的改变？说话声岂不也是它的改变？我们由此推论，思考的灵魂是自然的一部分。”
不过，其中一些人虽然不十分反对，但为了使这个问题更清楚，就说：“当以太从那大能的混沌中分离出来时，灵魂就生成了。这时，以太在最高区域使自身分裂为无数个体形式。当人们开始通过更纯的空气思考时，这些个体形式就注入到他们里面，然后被称作灵魂。”另一个人闻言说：“我承认，由最高区域的以太所形成的个体形式不计其数。然而，自创世以来所生人类的数量远远超过这些形式的数量，所以，这些以太形式如何足够呢？于是，我心里思想，当人们死亡之时，灵魂会从他们的口中涌出来，历经数千年后再回到这些人身上，开始并度过与其前世相似的一生。很多智者相信灵魂转世及其类似观念。”除此之外，其他人还提出了其它猜测，因太过离谱，我就忽略不计了。
过了一会儿，牧师回来了。之前声称神创造宇宙的那一位便将他们有关灵魂的结论告诉他。听了这些话后，牧师对他们说：“你们所说的和你们在世时所想的一样，殊不知你们已不在尘世，而是在另一个世界，这个世界被称为灵界。所有那些因确信自然理论而沉浸于身体感官的人都没有意识到他们已不在他们曾出生并长大的那个世界。原因在于，在那里，他们拥有物质身体，而在此则拥有实质身体。实质人看自己和他周围的同伴，正如物质人看自己和他周围的同伴，因为实质是物质的起点。你们因所思、所看，所闻，所尝，所言和在世时一模一样，故以为这里的自然也一样。然而，这个世界的自然完全不同于那个世界的自然，就象实质完全不同于物质，或属灵的完全不同于属世的，或在先者完全不同于在后者。你们以前所生活的那个世界的自然相对来说是死的，所以你们若确认相信自然，那么在有关神、天堂、教会，以及你们灵魂的问题上无形中也变成死的。然而，每个人，无论好坏，都能拥有被提升至天堂天使所享之光的理解力，然后看到神和死后生命的存在，以及人的灵魂并非以太，因而并不具有物质世界的性质，而是属灵的，因此注定活到永远。只要源于这个世界、支持它及其自然，以及源于肉体、支持它和自我的属世爱欲被逐出，理解力就能享有那天使之光。”
立刻，这些爱欲被主逐出，他们得以与天使对话。在这种状态下，他们通过交谈发觉神的存在，并且发现他们已经死了，现正生活在另一个世界。这使得他们满面羞愧，叫喊说：“我们疯了，我们疯了！”但是，由于这种状态不是他们自己的，并且几分钟后变得倦怠和不快，所以他们远离那牧师，不愿再听他讲话，因而又回到以前的爱欲中。这些爱欲纯粹是属世、世俗和肉体的。他们离开去往左边，从一个社群来到另一个社群，最后踏上他们感受自己的爱之快乐的道路上，说：“我们走这条路吧。”于是，他们沿着这条路走下去，直到最后来到那些具有相似的爱之快乐的人那里，仍继续往下走。由于其快乐在于行恶，并且他们在路上伤害了很多人，所以他们被关进监狱，变成恶魔。这时，其快乐变成痛苦，因为他们由于惩罚和对惩罚的恐惧而受到约束，被阻止享受以前的快乐，而这些快乐已成为他们的本性。他们问那监狱的同伴，他们是否要永远这样活下去。其中一些人回答说：“我们已在这里几个世纪了，还会永永远远呆在这里，因为我们在世时所获得的本性不会因惩罚而改变或被逐出。每当被如此逐出后，它很快就会回来。”
79. 第四個經歷:
有一次, 當我正在思考宇宙被造之事, 一些從基督徒國家來的靈靠近我。這些靈在他們那個時代, 曾是非常著名的哲學家, 有超人的智慧而倍受世人推崇。他們說:"我們注意到你正在思考創造, 告訴我們你的觀點。"
"先說說你們的想法吧。"我回答。
其中一個說:"我的想法是:創造是自然的傑作, 因而自然創造它自己。自然從永遠就存在, 並不存在虛空。如果不是自然, 那麼我們眼睛所見,耳朵所聽,鼻子所聞,肺所呼吸的, 會是什麼呢？因為自然在我們之外, 也在我們裡面。"
[2]另一位聽完後, 說:"你談到自然, 並認為自然是宇宙的創造者, 但你並不知道自然是如何創造宇宙的。我來告訴你。自然把自己先捲進漩渦, 在裡面彼此碰撞, 像雲那樣,或者像地震中倒塌的房屋那樣。"他解釋, 這樣的碰撞令到密度大點的物質集合一處形成陸地; 流動的部分被分離出來後聚焦一處成為海洋; 輕點的部分分離後形成空氣, 最輕的那部分形成太陽。最後他說道:"你沒看到, 當油,水和泥土混在一起時, 它們自發地分開並井然有序地分成幾層嗎？"
[3]然後, 另一位聽眾說:"你所說的只是想像而已。每個人都知道萬物最初的源頭是混沌, 宇宙充於其中。混沌的核心是火, 繞著火的是靈氣, 繞著氣的是物質。這混沌裂開, 火從裂縫噴發而出——如同埃特納火山和維蘇威火山爆發——形成太陽。接著靈氣膨脹並擴張,形成氣層。最後, 剩下的物質濃縮成球狀,形成地球。
至於眾星, 它們只不過是宇宙蒼穹中的光源——由太陽和它的火和光引起。因為太陽最初就像個火海, 為了不讓太陽的火掉在地球上, 就把火星散在周圍的蒼穹之中。"
[4]有個旁觀者站起來說:"你們錯了。你們自認為聰明, 在我看來卻是簡單。然而我單純地相信, 現在仍然相信:上帝創造了宇宙。並且因為自然是宇宙的一部分, 因而上帝也是自然的創造者。如果自然造了自己, 它豈不是從永遠就存在嗎？這是胡說！ "
當他正說著, 一位所謂的智者擠進來, 越來越靠近那位說話的人, 他右邊的耳朵塞著一塊棉花, 左耳幾乎貼著說話者的嘴邊問那人講什麼。於是那人將剛才說的話重述一遍。這位"智者"掃了一下四周, 看看有沒有神職人員在場。他猛然發現有名牧師站在說話者旁邊, 於是他就晃了晃腦袋, 大聲說:"我也承認整個自然來自於上帝, 不過嘛……, "他未說完就走開了, 低聲對他的同伴說:"我這樣說, 是因為我看到有牧師在場。你我都知道自然是從自然而來, 因而自然不就成了上帝嘛。我說整個自然來自於上帝, 只是因為……。"
[5]牧師聽到他們嘀咕什麼, 就說:"你們的智慧僅限於哲學, 把你們引偏, 還徹底關閉你們思想的內在部分, 以至於得不到從上帝和天國而來的光照, 是你們自己滅了那些光。"他接著說:"你們好好想想, 自己判斷一下, 你們這不朽的靈魂從何而來？它們來自于自然嗎, 還是出自你们所说的混沌？"
聽到這些, 這個所謂的智者離開了, 去向他的同伴們求助, 來解決這個棘手的問題。最後, 他們得出結論:人的靈魂沒什麼, 只不過是靈氣, 思想也僅僅是陽光照射引起的靈氣的變化; 並且靈氣只是自然的一部分。
他們說:"每個人都知道, 我們利用空氣來說話。思想不就是以一種更純的空氣——被稱為"靈氣"——來說話嗎？這就是為何所思與所言能統一的缘由。任何人可以從小孩身上觀察到這點, 一個孩子先學說話, 接著自言自語, 那就是在思考。這樣, 思想不就是靈氣的變化嗎？說話的聲音不就是思想的調節嗎？基上以上內容, 我們得出結論:作為產生思想的靈魂, 就是自然的一部分。"
[6]他們之中的一些人, 並不反對這個說法, 並且進一步演繹, 說:"當靈氣在巨大的混沌之中形成一個球的之時, 靈魂就產生了。並且靈氣在最高的領域自行分裂成無數個別的形式。當人們開始在一個比空氣更純的層次去思考時, 這些形式就注入到人之中。於是, 這些形式就被稱為"靈魂"。"
另一位聽到了, 就說:"我同意你的意見, 由靈氣在最高領域所形成的個別形式是無數的。然而從世界被造至今出生的人數已超過那些形式的數量。那麼這些靈氣的形式怎麼夠呢？因為我自己想, 靈魂在人死後會從他們的口中出來, 幾千年後再回到這人裡面。因此, 他們又回來, 過著之前類似的生活。我們知道, 許多有識之士都相信轉世以及類似的事情。"
另外, 他們還發表了一些其它的猜想, 因為太離譜, 我就省略了。
[7]過了一小會, 牧師回來了。之前聲稱上帝創造宇宙的那個智者上前來, 告訴牧師他們對靈魂的結論。聽了之後, 牧師告訴他們:"你們所說的, 的確是你們在世時所想的, 沒有意識到你們再也不是在那個世界,而是在心靈世界。所有将立場歸功於自然的人, 將他們局限於他們的身體和感官之中, 這些人意識不到他們再也不是處於之前那個曾經出生和生活過的世界。在那裡, 他們活在屬世物質所造的身體之中。在這裡, 他們活在屬靈實質所造的身體之中。有屬靈實質的身體的人看自己和周邊的人, 全然與自然物質的身體看在世時的自己和周邊之人一樣。這是因為實質是物質的起點, 或者說, 實質先於物質。
"因為你在這裡想的,說的,看的,聞的和嘗的, 跟你在物質世界時的方式一樣, 於是你相信在這裡也是一回事。然而, 這個世界裡的事物與先前世界中的, 之間的分別與距離就如同實質與物質之分, 或者屬靈與屬世之分。由於你們之前生活過的世界, 與這世界相比而言是死的, 因此你們將信仰歸功於自然, 就或多或少地在自尋死路——至少在關於上帝,天國和教會方面, 在靈魂方面, 也是如此。
"而且, 每個人不論好壞, 都能將其認知力提高到天國天人的光照之中。於是能看到上帝的存在, 有死後的生活, 人的靈魂並非什麼靈氣而已,也非由物質界的自然形成, 而是屬靈的,且能活到永遠。我們能領悟到天國之光的光照, 只要我們摒棄屬世之愛——就是愛世界和愛自己。"
[8]立刻, 那些愛欲(愛世界和愛自己)被主從他們身上移除, 他們被許可與天人們談話。從他們在那樣狀態下與天人的對話, 他們認識到上帝的存在,以及死後在另一世界繼續生活。他們因羞愧臉紅, 大喊:"我要瘋了, 我要瘋了！"
但是, 這並不是他們的本來的狀態, 因此過了一會兒, 就有些厭煩了。於是他們背向牧師, 不想聽他講任何內容。因此, 他們又回到之前的狀態:就是完全物質的,屬世的和肉體的愛欲。
他們離開, 朝左邊走去, 從一個社區遊蕩到另一個社區, 最後走上一條路, 讓他們領會到屬於他們自己之愛的快樂, 就說:"我們走這條路吧。"於是他們一直沿這條路走下去, 一直走到一群享受類似愛之情感的人群, 越往前走, 仍是如此。因為他們樂於行惡, 因此在路上傷害許多人, 於是被投進監獄,成為魔鬼。然後, 他們的快樂變為痛苦, 因為懲罰和對懲罰的恐懼, 他們被約束,並被阻止去享受之前的快樂, 已形成的行為習慣造就了他們的屬性。
他們問同監獄的夥伴們, 是否永遠像這樣活下去。其中一些回答說:"我們已在這裡幾個世紀了, 還會永遠這樣呆下去。因為我們在世時逐漸形成的性質無法轉變, 甚至通過懲罰也無法從我們裡面驅逐, 即使藉著懲罰一時被趕出來, 很快又跑回來了。"
79. The fourth memorable occurrence. Once when I was thinking about the creation of the universe, some spirits from the Christian world came up to me. Among philosophers of their day, they had been some of the most famous and were esteemed the wisest of all.
"We noticed that you were thinking about creation," they said. "Tell us what your thinking is about that. "
But I replied, "Tell me first what your thinking is. "
One of them said, "My thinking is that creation comes from nature. Nature created itself. It existed from eternity, since there is no such thing as a vacuum - a vacuum is impossible. What else except nature do we see with our eyes, hear with our ears, smell with our noses, or breathe with our chests? Because nature is outside us it is also inside us. "
[2] When another philosopher heard this he said, "You mention nature and you make it the creator of the universe, but you don't know how nature produced the universe. I'll tell you. It rolled itself into vortices. They collided with each other much the way clouds do, or the way houses do when they collapse in an earthquake. As a result of that collision, denser substances gathered together to form the earth while more fluid substances separated from the denser material and came together to form oceans. Lighter substances separated out from the oceans to become ether and air, and the lightest of these was the sun. Haven't you noticed that when you mix oil, water, and dirt together they spontaneously separate and form layers one above the other?"
[3] On hearing this, another philosopher said, "You made that up! Everyone knows that the real origin of all things was a chaos that filled a quarter of the universe. In the middle of the chaos there was fire; around the fire was ether; around the ether was matter. The chaos developed cracks, and fire erupted through them like Etna and Vesuvius. This resulted in the sun. Then the ether rolled out and poured all around. This resulted in the atmosphere. Finally the remaining matter formed a ball. This resulted in the earth.
"As for the stars, they are just light sources in the expanse of the universe. They arose from the sun and its fire and light. At first, you see, the sun was like an ocean of fire. In order not to set fire to the earth it pulled little shining flames out of itself and allotted them a place in the surrounding space. This completed the universe and produced its firmament. "
[4] Then one person who was there stood up and said, "You are all wrong. You seem wise to yourselves and I seem simple to you, but in my simplicity I have believed and I still believe that God created the universe. Since nature is part of the universe, God then was also the Creator of all nature. If nature had created itself, would it have existed from eternity? What madness!"
As he was speaking, one of the so-called wise philosophers urgently pushed closer and closer to him. The philosopher brought his left ear right up to the speakers mouth; his right ear was stuffed with a piece of cotton. He asked him what he had said, so the speaker repeated it again. Then the philosopher who had hurried forward looked around to see if there was a priest nearby; he noticed one beside the speaker. So the philosopher turned around and said, "I too confess that all nature is from God, but . . . " Then he left; and speaking in a whisper to his friends, he told them, "I said that because there was a priest nearby. You and I know that nature is from nature. That makes nature God, so that is why I said all nature is from God, but . . . "
[5] The priest heard what they whispered and said, "Your wisdom, which is purely philosophical, has led you astray. It has closed the inner realms of your minds so tightly that no light from God or his heaven can flow in and enlighten you. You have extinguished that light. " Then he added, "Hold a debate and figure out among yourselves where your immortal souls come from. Do they come from nature? Were they together in that great chaos?"
So then the philosopher went to his colleagues and asked them to join him in unraveling this knotty question.
They concluded that the human soul is nothing but ether. Thought, they decided, is nothing but a modification in the ether caused by the light of the sun, and the ether is part of nature.
They said, "Everyone knows that we use air to speak. What is thought except speech in a still purer air called the ether? This is how thought and speech become one thing. We see this in human children. First they learn to talk. In the next phase they learn to talk to themselves, which is thinking. What else is thought, then, but a modification of the ether? What else is the sound of speech but a modulation of thought? On the basis of all this we conclude that the soul, where thinking happens, is part of nature. "
[6] Other philosophers among them did not disagree but shed further light on the issue by saying, "Souls came into being when the ether in the great chaos formed a ball. In the highest realm the ether divided into countless individual forms. These forms pour down into people when they begin to think on a level that is purer than air. These forms are then called souls. "
Another philosopher said, "I'll grant you that the individual forms made out of ether in the highest realm were countless. Nevertheless the number of people born since the world was created has exceeded the number of forms. How then could there be enough of these ethereal forms? So I thought to myself that the souls that go out through people's mouths when they die come back to the same people after several thousand years. The people go back, therefore, and live a similar life to the one they had before. As we know, many of the wise believe in reincarnation and things like that. "
Other conjectures besides these were tossed out by the rest, but they were too insane for me to even mention.
[7] A few minutes later the priest came back. The philosopher who had previously said that God created the universe now told the priest what the group had decided about the soul.
In response the priest told them, "What you have said is exactly what you thought in the world. You don't even realize that you're not in that world - you are in another one called the spiritual world! All whose positions in favor of nature have limited them to their bodies and senses are unaware that they are not in the same world where they were born and raised. There they were in a body made of physical matter; here they are in a body made of spiritual substance. People made of spiritual substance see themselves and others around them in exactly the same way that people made of physical matter see themselves and others around them. This is because substance comes before matter.
"Since you think, speak, see, smell, and taste things in much the same way as you did in the physical world, you believe that nature is the same here. Nature in this world, though, is just as different and distant from the nature in that world as spiritual substance is from physical matter or something primary is from something secondary. As the nature in the world where you used to live is comparatively dead, so the positions you have taken in favor of nature have more or less killed you, at least in areas related to God, heaven, and the church, as well as in the realm of your own souls.
"Nevertheless the intellects of all people, the evil as well as the good, can rise all the way to the light where the angels of heaven are. There they can all see that there is a God and a life after death. They can see that our souls are not ethereal; they are not made out of the nature of the physical world; they are spiritual and therefore will live forever. Our intellects are capable of being in that angelic light as long as our physical loves are removed - loves that belong to the physical world and favor it and its nature, and loves that belong to the body and favor it and its sense of self. "
[8] At that point the Lord instantly removed loves like that from the philosophers, and they were allowed to talk with angels. From their conversation in that state they became aware that there is a God and that they were living after death in another world. They blushed with complete embarrassment and cried, "We have been insane! We have been insane!"
This was not, however, their own state, so after a few minutes it became tiresome and unwelcome to them. They turned their backs on the priest, not wanting to hear him talking anymore, and returned to their former loves, which were merely material, worldly, and bodily.
They headed off to the left, wandering from community to community. Eventually they came to a road where they felt a breeze that brought them pleasure in things they loved the most, so they said, Let's take this road.
They took it and went downward. Eventually they came to spirits who felt pleasure in the same kinds of love and worse. Since those philosophers felt pleasure in doing evil things, and had in fact done evil things to many along the way, they were imprisoned and became demons. Then their pleasure turned into torment. Punishments and fear of punishment restrained them and reined them in from the former pleasure that constituted their nature.
They asked people who were in the same prison, "Are we going to live like this forever?"
Some answered, "We've been here for a number of centuries, and we'll be here forever and ever. The nature we developed in the world cannot be changed. Not even punishments can drive this nature out of us - if they do succeed in driving it out, after a little while it comes rushing back in again. "
79. The fourth experience.
Once when I was thinking about the creation of the universe, some people from the Christian part of the world approached me, who in their time had been among the most famous philosophers and had a reputation for surpassing wisdom. 'We notice,' they said, 'that you are thinking about creation; tell us what is your opinion on that subject.'
'Tell me first,' I replied, 'what is yours.' 'My opinion,' said one of them, 'is that creation is the work of nature, and that nature therefore created itself, having existed from eternity. A vacuum does not and cannot exist. Yet what is it that we see with our eyes, hear with our ears, smell with our noses and breathe with our lungs, if not nature? Because nature is outside us, it is also within us.'
[2] Another person who heard this said: 'You speak of nature and regard it as the creator of the universe, but you do not know how nature made the universe; so I will tell you. It twisted itself into vortices which clashed together as clouds do, or like houses collapsing in an earthquake.' He explained that this collision caused the denser material to come together to form the earth; the more fluid parts separated out and came together to form the seas; and the lighter parts also separated out to form the ether and the air, the lightest of all formed the sun. 'Have you not seen how when oil, water and dust are mixed together, they spontaneously separate out and arrange themselves in order one above the other?'
[3] Then another listener said: 'What you say is mere imagination. Everyone knows that the first source of all things was chaos, which in size filled a quarter of the universe. In its midst was fire, with ether around that, and matter around the ether. This chaos split open and the fire burst forth through the cracks, as it does from Etna or Vesuvius, to form the sun. Next the ether expanded and spread around, to form an atmosphere. Finally the remaining matter condensed into a ball, to form the earth. As for the stars, they are merely lights in the expanse of the universe, which arose from the sun and its fire and light. For the sun was at first like an ocean of fire, which to avoid setting fire to the earth threw off from itself shining sparks; these took up their positions in the surroundings and so completed the universe by forming the sky.'
[4] But there was one of the by-standers who said: 'You are wrong. You think yourselves wise, and I seem to you simple. Yet in my simplicity I have believed, and still do, that the universe was created by God; and because nature is part of the universe, He created it at the same time as the whole of nature. If nature had created itself, would it not have existed from eternity? That is a fine piece of nonsense.'
Then one of the so-called wise men rushed up nearer and nearer to the speaker, and put his left ear to the other's mouth - his right ear was blocked with what looked like cotton-wool - and asked what he had said. He repeated the same statement, whereupon the man who had come up looked around him to see if any priest was present; he caught sight of one beside the speaker, and then twisted around saying: 'I too admit that the whole of nature comes from God, but -.' And he went off, whispering to his companions and saying: 'I said that because there was a priest present. You and I know that nature comes from nature, and because nature is therefore God, I said that the whole of nature comes from God, but - .'
[5] But the priest, hearing what they were whispering, said: 'Your wisdom is nothing but philosophy, which has led you astray and shut off the interiors of your minds so completely that no light from God and His heaven can penetrate and bring you enlightenment. You have put the light out. Consider therefore,' he went on, 'and decide among yourselves what is the origin of your souls, which are immortal. Do they come from nature, or were they at the same time in that mighty chaos?'
On hearing this the first man went off to his colleagues, to ask their help in solving this knotty problem. They came to the conclusion that the human soul is nothing but ether, and thought is merely a modification of the ether caused by sunlight; and ether is a part of nature. 'Surely everyone knows,' they said, 'that we talk by means of the air? And what is thought but speech in a purer sort of air, which is called ether? That is why thought and speech act as one. Anyone can observe this in children; a child first learns to talk, and then afterwards to talk to himself, and that is thinking. What then can thought be but a modification of the ether? Or what is the sound of speech but a modulation of it? From these considerations we deduce that the thinking soul is part of nature.'
[6] But some of them, while not disagreeing, cast light on the state of the question by saying that souls arose when the ether formed itself into a ball out of that mighty chaos, and then in the highest region divided itself into innumerable individual forms. These are infused into people, when they begin to think by that purer sort of air, and they are then called souls.
Another on hearing this said: 'I admit that the individual forms made from the ether in its highest region may have been innumerable, but still the number of human beings born from the creation of the world has exceeded the number of forms, so how could those ethereal forms be enough? This has led me to think that the souls which issue from people's mouths when they die return to the same people again after some thousands of years, so that they embark on and complete a life, similar to their previous one. It is well known that many wise men believe in the transmigration of souls and similar ideas.' In addition to these there were other guesses flung around, which I pass over as being crazy.
[7] After a short while the priest returned, and the one who had previously spoken about the creation of the universe by God told him their decisions concerning the soul. On hearing these the priest told them: 'You have spoken exactly as you thought in the world, unaware that you are not any longer in that world but another, which is called the spiritual world. All those who, by convincing themselves of the nature theory, have become immersed in the bodily senses, are not aware that they are no longer in the same world as that in which they were born and brought up. The reason is that there they had a material body, but here a substantial body; and a substantial person sees himself and his companions around him exactly as a material person sees himself and his companions around him, for the substantial is the starting-point of the material. Because you think, see, smell, taste, and speak just as you did in the natural world, you believe that nature here is the same. Yet the nature of this world is as different and remote from that of the former world as the substantial is from the material, or the spiritual from the natural, or what is prior from what is posterior. Because the nature of the world in which you previously lived is comparatively speaking lifeless, so by convincing yourselves of your belief in nature you too have become virtually dead as regards matters which relate to God, heaven and the church, as well as what concerns your souls. Still every person, bad as well as good, can have his understanding raised into the light enjoyed by the angels in heaven; and then he can see that God exists, that there is a life after death, that the human soul is not ethereal and thus of the nature of the material world, but spiritual, and so destined to live for ever. The understanding can enjoy that angelic light, so long as the natural loves are banished which came from the world, favouring it and its nature, and from the body, favouring it and the self 1 .
[8] At once those loves were banished by the Lord, and they were permitted to talk with angels. From their conversation in that state they perceived the existence of God and that after dying they were living in another world. This made them blush with shame and cry: 'We were mad, we were mad!' But since this state was not their own and after a few minutes became tiresome and unwelcome, they turned their backs on the priest and were unwilling to go on listening to him. Thus they reverted to their former loves, which were entirely natural, worldly and bodily. They went off to the left, from one community to another, and eventually reached a road where they caught a whiff of the delights of their own loves, and said: 'Let us take this road.' So they went along it, going down until they came to people who delighted in similar loves, and further still. Since their delight consisted in doing evil, and they harmed many on the way, they were thrown into prison and became demons. Then their delight was turned into misery, because they were restrained and prevented from enjoying what had previously delighted them, the behaviour which had formed their nature, by punishment and the fear of punishment.
They asked their companions in that prison whether they were to live like that for ever. Some of those there replied: 'We have been here for several centuries, and we are to remain for ever and ever, because the nature we acquired in the world cannot be changed or driven out by punishment. When it is driven out by this, it still comes back after a short interval.'
Footnotes:
1. Latin proprium, the term often used for the unregenerate self.
79. Fourth Memorable Relation:
Once when I was reflecting upon the creation of the universe, some spirits from the Christian world approached, who had been in their time among the most celebrated philosophers, and had been regarded as wiser than all others; and they said, "We perceive that you are thinking about creation; tell us what your idea is about it."
But I replied, "Tell me your own first."
And one of them said, "It is my opinion that creation is from nature, and thus that nature created itself, and that it has existed from eternity; for there is no vacuum, and there can be none. In fact, what else do we see with our eyes, hear with our ears, smell with our nostrils, and breathe with our breasts, but nature, which being outside of us must be also within us?"
[2] Another having heard this, said, "You speak of nature and make her the creator of the universe; but as you do not know how nature operated in producing the universe I will tell you. Nature infolded herself in vortices, which dashed together like clouds, or like houses when overthrown by an earthquake; and by such collision the grosser materials brought themselves together into one mass which formed the land; and the more fluid portions separated themselves from these and brought themselves together into one body which formed the seas; and again the still lighter parts separated themselves from these, forming the ether and air; and finally from the lightest of these the sun was formed. Have you not seen that when oil, water, and the dust of the earth are mixed together they freely separate themselves, and arrange themselves in order one above another?"
[3] Then another, hearing this, said, "Both of you are talking from mere fancy. Who does not know that the first origin of all things was chaos, which in magnitude had filled a fourth part of the universe; that at the center of it was fire; round about this ether, and round this matter; that this chaos opened in fissures, through which the fire broke forth, as from Aetna and Vesuvius, and formed the sun; after this the ether issued forth and poured itself about, and formed the atmosphere; and finally the remaining matter solidified into a globe and formed the earth? As to the stars, they are only luminaries in the expanse of the universe, which sprang from the sun and its heat and light; for at first the sun was like a fiery ocean; but, that it might not burn up the earth, it sent off from itself small masses of bright Same, which locating themselves in surrounding space, completed the universe, forming its firmament. "
[4] But there stood one among them who said, "You are mistaken. You seem to yourselves to be wise, and I seem to you to be simple; and yet in my simplicity I have believed and continue to believe that the universe was created by God; and as nature pertains to the universe, that universal nature was then simultaneously created. If nature created herself must she not have existed from eternity? But O what madness!"
And then one of the so-called wise men ran up closer and closer to the speaker, and put his left ear near to the speaker's mouth-for his right ear had been filled with something like cotton-and asked him what he had said; and the statements were repeated. Then he who had come up looked around to see if any priest were present, and seeing one at the side of the speaker he replied, "I also confess that universal nature is from God; but-" Then he went off and whispered to his companions, saying, "I said that because there was a priest near; you and I know that nature is from nature; but as this makes nature to be God, I said that universal nature is from God; but-"
[5] The priest hearing their whispers, said, "Your wisdom, which is purely philosophical, has misled you, and has so closed the interiors of your minds that no light can flow into them from God and His heaven and enlighten you; you have extinguished this light." And he said, "Consider, therefore, he state in which yourselves where your souls, which are immortal originated-whether in nature or whether they also were in included in that great chaos."
Having heard this the former went to his companions and asked them to join him in the solution of this knotty question. And they came to the conclusion that the human soul is nothing but ether, and thought nothing but a modification of ether by the sun's light, and ether a property of nature. And they said, "Who does not know that we speak by means of the air? And what is thought but speech in a purer air, which is called the ether? Therefore thought and speech make one. Who cannot see this in man during his infancy? He first learns to talk, then he gradually learns to talk with himself-and that is thinking. What, then, is thought but a modification of the ether? And what is the sound of the voice but a modulation of that? From which we conclude that the soul which thinks is a property of nature."
[6] But some of them-not exactly dissenting, but to make the matter clear-said that souls came into existence when the ether separated itself from that great chaos, the ether then dividing itself in the highest region into innumerable individual forms, which pour themselves into men when they begin to think from the purer air; and these are then called souls.
Another, having heard this, said, "I admit that there were innumerable individual forms formed out of the ether in the higher region; nevertheless there have been a still greater number of men born since the creation of the world; how then could there have been enough of these ethereal forms? Therefore I have thought to myself, that souls departing from the mouths of men when they die, return to them again after some thousands of years, and enter upon and pass through a life similar to their former life. That many of the wise believe in something like this, and in metempsychosis, is known. "
Other conjectures beside these were broached by the rest; but as they were mere ravings I pass them by.
[7] In a short time the priest returned, and then the one who had before spoken about the creation of the universe by God told of their conclusions about the soul; having heard which the priest said to them, "You have spoken precisely as you thought in the world, not knowing that you are not in that world, but in another, which is called the spiritual world. All those who have become corporeal-sensual by confirming themselves in favor of nature are unaware that they are not in the same world in which they were born and brought up. This is because they there had material bodies, while here they have substantial bodies; and a substantial man sees himself and his companions about him precisely as a material man sees himself and his companions; for the substantial is the primitive of the material. And you believe that the same nature exists here, for the reason that you think, see, smell, taste, and talk in the same way as you did in the natural world; when in fact the nature of this world is as different and distinct from the nature of that world as the substantial is from the material, or the spiritual from the natural, or the prior from the posterior. And as the nature of the world where you formerly lived is comparatively dead, so have you, by confirming yourselves in its favor, become as it were dead, that is, in respect to what pertains to God, to heaven, and to the church, and also in this matter which relates to your souls. And yet every man, the bad and the good alike, may in understanding be elevated even into the light in which the angels of heaven are; and then they are able to see that there is a God and a life after death, and that man's soul is not ethereal, and therefore not of the nature of that world, but is spiritual, and therefore will live to eternity. The understanding may be in such angelic light, provided those natural loves are set aside which are derived from the world, and which favor it and its nature, and which are derived from the body and favor it and what belongs to it."
[8] Then instantly these loves were taken away from them by the Lord, and they were permitted to speak with angels, from whose conversation they in that state perceived that there is a God, and that they were living after death in another world; wherefore they were covered with shame, and exclaimed, "We were mad! we were mad." But as this was not their own proper state, and as after a few minutes it became tiresome and unpleasant, they turned away from the priest and were unwilling to listen to him any longer; so they returned to their former loves, which were merely natural, worldly, and corporeal, and they went away toward the left, passing from one society to another; and finally they came to a path, where the delights of their own loves breathed upon them, and they said, "Let us go this way;" and they went; and descending, they came at length to those who were in the delights of similar loves; and they went on. And as their delight was a delight in doing evil, and as they did evil to many on the way, they were imprisoned and became demons. And then their delight was changed to undelight, because by punishments and fears of punishment they were curbed and restrained from their former delight which constituted their nature.
And they asked those who were in the same prison if they were to live in that way for ever; and some answered, "We have been here for some ages, and are to remain for ages of ages, because the nature that we contracted in the world cannot be changed, nor can it be expelled by punishments; for whenever it is so expelled, after a short lapse of time it returns."
79. The fourth experience. Once, when I was reflecting upon the creation of the universe, there approached me some spirits who had come from the Christian world and who had been among the most celebrated philosophers of their time, with an outstanding reputation for wisdom. They said: "We perceive that you are meditating upon the subject of creation. Pray tell us what you think about it." But I replied: "Do you first tell me what you think." Thereupon one of them said: "My opinion is that creation is from nature, and therefore that nature created herself, and that she existed from eternity, for there is not, nor can there be, a vacuum. What else do we see with our eyes, hear with our ears, smell with our nostrils and breathe with our lungs but nature, who, as she is outside of us, is also within us?"
[2] On hearing this another said: "You mention nature, and make her the creator of the universe, but you do not know how nature produced the universe, so I will tell you. She formed herself into whirling eddies which rushed together as clouds do, and as houses collapse in an earthquake. Following upon that collision, the denser parts collected themselves into a single mass, from which the land was formed. The more fluid parts, separating themselves from these, gathered together and formed the seas. The parts that were still lighter further separated themselves from these and formed the ether and the air, while from the lightest particles of these again the sun was formed. Have you not observed that when oil, water, and pulverized earth are mixed together, they separate of their own accord, and arrange themselves in order, one above the other?"
[3] Then another, hearing this, said: "You are speaking under a delusion. Every one knows that the original source of all things was chaos, which with its bulk had filled a fourth part of the universe. In its centre was fire, all round it was ether, and surrounding this again was matter. This chaos developed fissures, through which the fire burst, as it does from Aetna 1 and Vesuvius, 2 and formed the sun. After this was formed the ether rushed forth, enveloping it, and from this an atmosphere was formed. Finally the matter that was left gathered together into a globe, and formed the earth. As for the stars, they are only luminaries in the expanse of the universe, originating from the fire and light of the sun; for the sun was at first like an ocean of fire, but, lest it should consume the earth, it detached from itself small shining bodies of fire; and these, taking up their position in the surrounding space, completed the universe, and thus was formed its firmament."
[4] Amongst them, however, there stood one who said: "You are mistaken. In your own eyes you appear to be wise, and I but a simpleton; yet in my simplicity I have believed, and do still believe, that the universe was created by God; and since nature belongs to the universe, and is thus universal, it was created at the same time. If, however, nature created herself, would she not have existed from eternity? But oh, what madness!" Then one of the so-called wise came nearer and nearer, and putting his left ear close to the mouth of the speaker, for his right ear was stopped as with cotton-wool, asked what he had said. The latter repeated his remarks. Thereupon the other looked round to see whether any priest was near; and noticing one by the side of the person who had been speaking, he replied: "I also acknowledge that Universal nature is from God, but...." Then he went away, whispering to his companions, "I said that because there was a priest standing by; but you and I know that nature is from nature; and as nature is thus God, therefore I said that universal nature is from God, but...."
[5] The priest, however, overhearing the whispers, said: "Your wisdom, which is merely philosophic, has led you astray, and has closed the interiors of your minds so that no light from God and His heaven can flow in and enlighten you: you have utterly extinguished it." And he added: "Consider, therefore, and decide among yourselves whence came your souls, which are immortal. Was it from nature, or were they also in that great chaos at the same time?"
When he heard this the former speaker withdrew to his companions, asking them to assist him in solving this knotty problem; and they came to the conclusion that the human soul is nothing but ether, that thought is nothing but a modification of the ether by the action of the sun's light, and that ether belongs to nature. And they said: "Every one knows that we speak by means of the air, and that thought is nothing but speech in a purer air called ether. Therefore thought and speech make one. Every one can observe this from what takes place during infancy. The infant first learns to speak, and then to speak with himself, that is, to think. What then is thought but a modification of the ether, and the sound of speech but a modulation of it? We conclude therefore that the soul, which thinks, is derived from nature."
[6] Some of them, not indeed dissenting, illustrated the position by saying that souls came into being when the ether emerged from that great chaos, and then in the highest region divided itself into innumerable individual forms, which infuse themselves into men when they begin to think from the purer air; and these forms are then called souls. On hearing this another said: "I grant that the individual forms produced from the ether in the higher regions may have been innumerable; but still, the men born since the creation of the world have exceeded the number of those forms. How then could those ethereal forms have been sufficient? I have therefore formed the opinion that the souls of men, departing out of their mouths when they die, return to them after several thousand years, when they enter upon and pass through a life similar to the one they lived before. It is well known that many wise men believe in such a process, and in the doctrine of Metempsychosis." In addition to these several other conjectures were put forth by the rest, which I pass over as being utterly absurd.
[7] After a short time the priest returned, and the one who had before spoken of the creation of the universe by God, told him their conclusions regarding the soul. When he heard these, the priest said: "You have spoken just as you thought in the natural world, not knowing that you are in that world no longer, but in another, which is called the spiritual world. All who have become sensual and corporeal by confirming their belief in nature, suppose that they are still in the same world in which they were born and brought up; because in that world their bodies were material, but here they are in a substantial body and the substantial man sees himself and those around him precisely as the material man does. For the substantial is the primitive element of the material; and because you think, see, smell, taste and speak as you did in the natural world, therefore you believe that nature is the same in both worlds, although, as a matter of fact, the nature of this world differs, and is as remote from the nature of the material world as the substantial from the material, or the spiritual from the natural, or what is prior from what is posterior. Because nature in the world where you formerly lived is in itself dead, therefore you, by confirming your belief in it, have become, as it were, dead with regard to what relates to God, to heaven and to the Church, and also to your own souls. Nevertheless, every man, whether he be evil or good, may be elevated as to his understanding into the light in which the angels of heaven are, and may then see that there is a God and a life after death; and that the soul of man is not formed from ether, and thus from the nature of the material world, but that it is spiritual, and therefore that it will live for ever. The understanding may be in that angelic light provided only that the natural loves which are worldly and cling to the world and its nature, and which are also corporeal and cling to the body and its proprium, 3 are removed."
[8] Thereupon those loves were removed by the Lord, and they were permitted to speak with angels; and from their conversation in that state they perceived that there is a God, and that they were living in another world after death. They were, therefore, overcome with shame, and called out: "We have been mad!" As this, however, was not their proper state and consequently in a short time became tedious and irksome, they turned away from the priest, and would no longer listen to him. They went back to their former loves, which were merely natural, mundane and corporeal, going towards the left from society to society till they came to a road along which the delights of their own loves were wafted to them. So they said: "Let us take this road." Down they went and at length they came to those who were in the delights of similar loves. Still downward they proceeded, but because their delight was to do evil, and this they had done to many on the way, they mere put in prison, and became demons. Then their delight was turned to misery, for by punishment and dread of punishment they were restrained from indulging in their former pleasures, which constituted their nature. They asked those who were in the same prison if this was to be their life for ever. Some of them replied: "We have been here for several ages, and we are to remain here for ages of ages; for the nature which we contracted in the world cannot be changed, or expelled by punishment; and should it be expelled at any time by this means, yet after a short interval it returns."
Footnotes:
1. Aethna, Aetna, volcano of Sicily.
2. Vesuvius, volcano in Campania, Italy.
3. The Latin word proprium when used as a substantive means "what is one's own." Swedenborg uses it in a special sense involving "what is of the self."
79. QUARTUM MEMORABILE.
Quondam cum in cogitatione de Creatione Universi eram, accesserunt aliqui ex Orbe Christiano, qui suo tempore Philosophi inter celeberrimos fuerunt, et prae reliquis reputati sapientes, et dixerunt, percipimus quod cogites de Creatione; dic nobis quae tua mens de illa; sed respondi, dicite primum quae vestra; et dixit unus, mens mea est, quod Creatio sit a Natura, et sic quod Natura seipsam creaverit, et quod haec fuerit ab aeterno; non enim datur vacuum, nec dabile est; atqui quid aliud spectamus oculis, captamus auribus, odoramus naribus, et respiramus pectore, quam Naturam, et haec quia extra nos est, etiam intra nos est.
[2] Alter haec audiens dixit, nominas Naturam, et hanc facis creatricem universi, sed non scis, quomodo Natura operata est Universum, quare dicam; convolvit se in vortices, qui inter se colliserunt sicut nubes inter se, et sicut domus in terrae motu, dum collabuntur, et quod ex illa collisione crassiora se contulerint in unum, unde Tellus, et quod fluidiora se ex his secreverint, et quoque se contulerint in unum, unde Maria, et quod ex his etiam leviora se separaverint, unde aether et aer, et ex horum levissimis Sol; vidistine, quod dum Oleum, Aqua, et Pulvis terrae commiscentur una, se sponte dividant, et in ordine unum supra alterum collocent.
[3] Tunc alius illud auscultans, dixit, loquimini ex phantasia; quis non scit, quod omnium prima origo fuerit chaos, quod magnitudine quartam partem Universi impleverat, et quod in medio ejus fuerit Ignis, circum circa illum aether, et circum hunc materia, et quod illud Chaos rimas duxerit, et per has 1 Ignis eruperit, sicut ex Aethna et Vesuvio, inde Sol; et quod post hunc Aether se evolverit et circum fuderit, unde Athmosphaera; et tandem materia residua se glomeraverit in orbem, unde Tellus: quod Stellas attinet, sunt illae modo luminaria in Expanso Universi, ex Sole et ejus igne et luce exorta; Sol enim primum fuit sicut Oceanus igneus, qui ne incenderet Tellurem, excerpsit ex se flammulas lucentes, quae locum sortitae in ambitu perfecerunt Universum, inde ejus Firmamentum.
[4] Sed stetit unus inter illos, qui dixit, erratis, vos videmini vobis sapientes, et ego vobis videor simplex, at usque in simplicitate mea credidi et credo quod Universum a Deo creatum sit, et quia natura est universi, quod simul tunc universa natura; si Natura 2 seipsam creaverit, fuissetne illa ab aeterno, sed oh quale delirium: et tunc unus ex sapientibus ita dictis accurrit propius et propius ad hunc loquentem, et admovit sinistram aurem ad os ejus, dextra ejus auris erat obturata sicut gossypio, et quaesivit quid loquutus est, et is repetiit idem; et tunc ille qui accurrit, circumspexit, num aliquis Sacerdos adesset, et vidit unum a latere loquentis, et tunc replicuit dicens, fateor etiam ego, quod universa natura sit a Deo, sed; et tunc abivit, susurrans cum sociis, et inquiit, hoc dixi quia praesto erat Sacerdos; vos et ego scimus quod natura sit a natura, et quia sic natura est Deus, dixi quod universa natura sit a Deo, Sed.
[5] At sacerdos audiens susurros illorum, dixit, sapientia vestra quae est mere philosophica, seduxit vos, et occlusit interiora mentium vestrarum, adeo, ut non Lux aliqua ex Deo et e Coelo Ipsius, potuerit influere, et illustrare vos; exstinxistis illam; et dixit, ventilate itaque, et decidite inter vos, unde sunt Animae vestrae, quae immortales sunt, num ex Natura, vel num fuerunt in magno illo Chao simul; quibus auditis abivit prior ad consocios, rogans ut illi una cum ipso hunc nodum quaestionis solverent, et concluserunt, quod Anima humana non sit nisi quam aether, et quod cogitatio non nisi quam modificatio aetheris per lucem solis, ac aether est naturae; et dixerunt, quis non scit, quod loquamur per aerem, et quid cogitatio nisi quam loquela in puriore aere, qui vocatur aether, inde est quod cogitatio et loquela unum faciant; quis hoc non potest animadvertere ex homine dum infans est; is primum discit loqui, et successive loqui secum, et hoc est cogitare; quid tunc cogitatio aliud quam modificatio aetheris, ac sonus loquelae quid aliud quam modulamen ejus; ex quibus decidimus, quod Anima, quae cogitat, sit naturae.
[6] Sed aliqui ex illis, quidem non dissenserunt, sed statum quaestionis illustraverunt, dicentes, quod Animae exortae sint, cum aether ex magno illo Chao se eglomeravit, et quod tunc in suprema regione se diviserit in innumerabiles individuas formas, quae se infundunt in homines, dum incipiunt ex aere puriore cogitare, quae tunc vocantur Animae. Hoc audito, dixit alius, concedo, quod formae individuae ab aethere in regione superiore formatae fuerint innumerabiles, sed usque homines a creatione Mundi nati numerum illarum excesserunt, quomodo tunc formae illae aethereae sufficere potuerunt, quare mecum cogitavi, quod Animae exeuntes ex ore hominum dum obeunt, post aliquot millia annorum redeant ad eosdem, ac similem priori vitam ineant et peragant; quod multi ex sapientibus parilia et Metempsychosin credant, notum est. Praeter hos etiam a reliquis sparsae sunt aliae conjecturae, quas, quia erant insaniae, praetereo.
[7] Post horulam rediit Sacerdos, et tunc ille, qui prius de Creatione Universi a Deo loquutus est, narravit illi decisa illorum de Anima; quibus auditis Sacerdos dixit illis, vos loquuti estis prorsus quemadmodum in Mundo cogitavistis, nescientes quod non in illo Mundo, sed in alio, qui vocatur Mundus Spiritualis, sitis; omnes illi qui sensuales corporei facti sunt ex confirmationibus pro Natura, non sciunt aliter, quam quod sint in eodem Mundo, in quo nati et educti sunt; causa est, quia ibi fuerunt in corpore materiali, hic autem sunt in corpore substantiali, et homo substantialis videt se et socios circum se, prorsus sicut homo materialis videt se et socios circum se; est enim substantiale primitivum materialis, et quia cogitatis, videtis, odoratis, gustatis, et loquimini similiter ut in Mundo naturali, ideo creditis, quod eadem Natura hic sit, cum tamen hujus Mundi natura tantum differt et distat ab illius Mundi natura, quantum substantiale a materiali, seu spirituale a naturali, seu prius a posteriori; et quia Natura Mundi, in qua prius vixistis, est respective mortua, ideo vos ex confirmationibus pro illa facti estis sicut mortui, sed in illis quae Dei, Coeli et Ecclesiae sunt, et quoque in illa re, quae Animas vestras spectat: sed usque omnis homo, tam malus quam bonus, potest quoad intellectum elevari usque in lucem in qua sunt Angeli Coeli, et tunc videre quod Deus sit, et quod vita post mortem sit, et quod Anima hominis non sit aetherea, et sic ex natura istius Mundi, sed spiritualis, et ideo victura in aeternum; intellectus in angelica illa luce potest esse, dum modo amores naturales, qui sunt ex Mundo et pro illo ejusque natura, et ex corpore et pro illo ejusque proprio, 3 removentur;
[8] et illico tunc a Domino, remoti sunt illi amores, et datum est illis loqui cum Angelis, et ex illorum sermone in illo statu perceperunt quod Deus sit, et quod post mortem in alio Mundo vivant, quare pudore suffusi sunt, et exclamaverunt, insanivimus, insanivimus; sed quia hic status non fuit illorum proprius, et inde post aliquot minuta taediosus et ingratus factus est, averterunt se a Sacerdote, et non voluerunt audire ejus loquelam amplius, et sic redierunt in amores priores, qui erant mere naturales, mundani 4 et corporei, et abiverunt ad sinistrum, a societate in societatem, et tandem venerunt ad viam, ubi jucunda amorum illorum afflaverunt illos, et dixerunt, hanc viam eamus, et iverunt, et descenderunt, et tandem venerunt ad illos, qui in jucundis similium amorum erant, ac ulterius; et quia jucundum illorum erat jucundum malefaciendi, et in via quoque malum fecerunt multis, incarcerati sunt, et facti daemones; et tunc jucundum illorum conversum est in injucundum, quia per poenas et harum timores, a priori suo jucundo, quod fecit naturam illorum, coerciti et refraenati sunt; et quaesiverunt illos, qui in eodem carcere erant, Numeri ita in aeternum victuri sint; respondebant aliqui ibi, nos fuimus hic aliquot saeculis, et mansuri sumus in saecula saeculorum; quoniam natura, quam contraximus in Mundo, non mutari potest, nec expelli per poenas, et dum per has expellitur, usque post brevem temporis elapsum recurrit.
Footnotes:
1. Prima editio: hos.
2. Prima editio: Naturam.
3. Prima editio: proprio (absque interpunctione).
4. Prima editio: mundari.