824.很多天主教徒，特别是修道士，一进入灵界就寻找圣徒，他们惊讶地发现找不到他们。但随后他们被教导，这些圣徒要么与天上的天人同在，要么与地深处的人同在，但不管在哪里，他们都不知道人们对他们的崇拜和祈求。那些知道并想要被祈求的人，全都陷入了妄想幻觉，说起话来象傻子一样。在天上，崇拜圣徒是令人深恶痛绝的行为，以至于仅仅提到它就会引起恐惧。因为敬拜在多大程度上屈于人，就在多大程度上否认主。在这种情况下，主无法成为敬拜的唯一对象，若不唯独敬拜主，就会造成分离，这种分离会毁灭与祂的联结，以及源自这联结的幸福生活。为了让我得以了解天主教圣徒的秉性，并公之于众，知道自己被封为圣徒的人中，有多达上百人从地的深处被提上来，他们走在我后面。只有几个人在我面前，我与其中的一个对话。他们说，这人叫泽维尔（Xavier，1622年封圣）。他和我说话时，就象一个白痴，然而却声称，在他与其他人被关的地方，他并不是傻子，但每当他认为自己是一个圣徒，并希望被祈求时，就会变成这副样子。我听见后面的人嘟囔同样的话。天上所谓圣徒的情况则迥然不同，他们根本不知道地上发生的事，也不被允许和那些迷信的天主教徒交谈，以免这类思想进入他们的头脑。
824. 很多天主教徒, 特别是修道士, 一进入灵界就寻找圣徒, 他们惊讶地发现找不到他们。 但随后他们被教导, 这些圣徒要么与天上的天人同在, 要么与地深处的人同在, 但不管在哪里, 他们都不知道人们对他们的崇拜和祈求。 那些知道并想要被祈求的人, 全都陷入了妄想幻觉, 说起话来象傻子一样。 在天上, 崇拜圣徒是令人深恶痛绝的行为, 以至于仅仅提到它就会引起恐惧。 因为敬拜在多大程度上屈于人, 就在多大程度上否认主。 在这种情况下, 主无法成为敬拜的唯一对象, 若不唯独敬拜主, 就会造成分离, 这种分离会毁灭与祂的联结, 以及源自这联结的幸福生活。 为了让我得以了解天主教圣徒的秉性, 并公之于众, 知道自己被封为圣徒的人中, 有多达上百人从地的深处被提上来, 他们走在我后面。 只有几个人在我面前, 我与其中的一个对话。 他们说, 这人叫泽维尔 (Xavier, 1622年封圣)。 他和我说话时, 就象一个白痴, 然而却声称, 在他与其他人被关的地方, 他并不是傻子, 但每当他认为自己是一个圣徒, 并希望被祈求时, 就会变成这副样子。 我听见后面的人嘟囔同样的话。 天上所谓圣徒的情况则迥然不同, 他们根本不知道地上发生的事, 也不被允许和那些迷信的天主教徒交谈, 以免这类思想进入他们的头脑。
824. When they come to the spiritual world, many Catholics, particularly the monks, look for the saints, especially the patron saint of their order. They are very surprised when they are unable to find them. Later on, however, they are instructed that the saints live as ordinary people among others - either among those who are in heaven or among those who are in the lower earth. In either location, the saints are completely unaware that anyone is worshiping them or praying to them. (Some, who do realize this and actually want to be prayed to, slip into insanity and begin babbling.)
In heaven, the worship of saints is considered to be a complete abomination. The angels shudder at the mere mention of it, because the more our worship is directed toward any human being, the less it is directed toward the Lord. In that circumstance the Lord is never the sole object of worship; and if the Lord is not the sole object of worship, then our worshipfulness is divided, which robs us of our communion with the Lord and the happiness of life that comes to us as a result.
[2] In order for me to learn what the Catholic saints are like, so that I could pass on the information, a hundred or so of them who knew they had been canonized were brought up from the lower earth. Most of them rose up behind me, and only a few in front. I had a conversation with one of them; I was told he was Xavier. When he was speaking with me, he was behaving very foolishly. He was able to tell me that in his own place where he is kept with others, he does not behave foolishly; he becomes an idiot, though, whenever he reflects that he is a saint and feels a desire to be prayed to. I heard a sympathetic murmur from the people behind me.
The situation is different, however, with the so-called saints who are in heaven. They have no awareness whatever of what is going on on earth, and they are not allowed to speak to any Catholics who are still hanging on to that superstition. This serves to protect them from the least idea of that sort.
824. Many of the Roman Catholics, especially monks, on reaching the spiritual world look for the saints, especially the saint to whose order they belong. They are surprised at not finding them. But later on they are taught that they are not separated from those in heaven or those in the lower earth, and that, wherever they are, they know nothing of the worship and invocations addressed to them. Those who do know of it and wish to be invoked fall into madness and talk nonsense. The worship of the saints is such an abomination in heaven that its bare mention causes horror, since in so far as worship is directed to any human being, so far is it detracted from the Lord. For in these circumstances the Lord cannot be the sole object of worship, and if He is not the sole object of worship, a separation is made which does away with communion, and the happiness of life which flows from it.
[2] So that I should know, and so might make it known, what the saints Of the Roman Catholics are like, as many as a hundred, who know of their canonisation, were brought up from the lower earth. They came up behind my back, only a few before my face. I spoke with one of them, who was, I was told, Xavier 1 . While he was speaking with me he was like an idiot. However, he was able to relate that in his own place where he is shut up with others he was not an idiot, but that he became one as often as he thought about being a saint and wanted to be invoked. I heard the same kind of murmuring from those behind my back. The situation of the so-called saints in heaven is quite different. They know nothing of what happens on earth, nor are they permitted to talk with any of the Roman Catholics who share that superstition, to prevent any such idea entering their minds.
Footnotes:
1. Canonised in 1622.
824. Many from the papal jurisdiction, especially the monks, when they enter the spiritual world, search for the saints, especially the saint of their order, and are astonished that they do not find them. But they are afterward taught that these saints are intermingled either with those who are in heaven or with those who are in the lower earth and that they know nothing in either place about their being invoked and worshiped; and that those who do know of it and wish to be invoked, fall into delusions and talk like fools. The worship of saints is such an abomination in heaven that when it is merely heard of it excites horror, because so far as worship is yielded to any man, so far it is denied to the Lord; for in that case the Lord alone cannot be worshiped; and when the Lord is not alone worshiped, a separation occurs which destroys communion with Him and the happiness of life that flows from it. That I might learn the character of the Popish saints and make it known, as many as a hundred of them who knew that they had been made saints were brought forth from the lower earth. They came up behind me. Only a few of them were in front of me, with one of whom I spoke. They said he was Xavier. While he was talking to me he was like a fool; and yet he was able to declare that in his own place, where he was shut up with others, he was not a fool, but became such as often as he thought himself a saint and wished to be invoked. I heard a murmur of the same thing from those who were behind. With the so-called saints in heaven it is different; they know nothing at all of what is done on earth, and they are not permitted to talk with any of the Papists who are in that superstition, that no idea of that thing may enter into them.
824. Many of the Roman Catholic persuasion, especially monks, when they enter the spiritual world search for the saints, particularly for the saint of their own order; but they do not find them. They are surprised at this; but they afterwards learn that the saints are either in heaven or in the earth beneath. In either case, saints as a rule know nothing of the worship and invocation offered to them; but those who do know, and desire to be invoked, are affected by madness and talk like fools. The worship of saints is held in such abomination in heaven that when the angels merely hear it mentioned they shudder; for when worship is paid to any man, it is to that extent denied to the Lord; and in that case He cannot be the sole object of worship. If, then, the Lord is not the sole object of worship, worship is divided; and this destroys communion and the life of blessedness which flows from communion. That I might learn, for the purpose of making it known, the real state of the Roman Catholic saints, there were brought up from the lower earth about a hundred of them who know that they had been canonized. They came up from behind, and only a few came in front of me; and I spoke with one of these, who, I was told, was Xavier. 1 Talking with me, he appeared a fool; yet I was able to gather from him that in his own place where he was confined with others, he was by no means a fool, but that he became one when he thought he was a saint and desired to be invoked. I heard words to the same effect coming from those who were behind me. It is otherwise with the saints, so called, who are in heaven. They know nothing at all of what is done on earth; and they are not allowed to speak with any of the Roman Catholic persuasion who hold that superstition, lest any idea of it should enter their mind.
Footnotes:
1. Xavier, Francis, A.D. 1506-1552, the apostle of the Indies, was associated with Loyola in the foundation of the Society of Jesus. He went to India as a missionary to the East; and after converting many at his first station at Goa he carried on much missionary work between India, and Japan. He was canonized in A. D. 1622.
824. Multi ex Pontificia Gente, imprimis Monachi, cum in Mundum spiritualem adveniunt, quaerunt Sanctos, imprimis Sanctum sui Ordinis, sed non inveniunt, quod mirantur, sed postea instruuntur quod sint intermixti vel illis qui in Coelo sunt, vel illis qui in Infera Terra, et quod utrobivis nihil sciant de cultu et invocatione sui, et quod illi qui sciunt, et volunt invocari, cadant in deliria, et fatue loquantur. Cultus Sanctorum est talis abominatio in Coelo, ut dummodo audiunt illum, horrescant, quoniam quantum alicui homini addicatur Cultus, tantum Cultus derogatur Domino; sic enim non solus potest coli; et si Dominus non solus colitur, fit discriminatio, quae tollit communionem, et fluentem ex illa felicitatem vitae.
[2] Ut scirem, quales Sancti Pontificiorum sunt, propter causam ut notum facerem, educti sunt ex inferiore Terra usque ad centum, qui noverunt de Sanctificatione sua; ascenderunt a tergo, modo aliqui ante faciem, et cum uno ex his loquutus sum, quem dixerunt esse Xaverium; hic dum mecum loquebatur, erat sicut fatuus; narrare tamen potuit, quod in loco suo ubi cum aliis inclusus est, non fatuus sit, sed quod fatuus fiat, quoties cogitat quod Sanctus sit et vult invocari: simile murmur audivi ab illis, qui a tergo erant. Aliter est cum Sanctis ita dictis in Coelo; hi prorsus nihil sciunt de eo quod in terris fit, nec datur illis loqui cum quibusdam e Gente Pontificia qui in illa superstitione sunt, ne aliqua idea de illa re apud illos intret.