1378、我通过与天使交谈和亲身经历获知，就构成其身体的有机物质而言，灵人作为灵人并不在他们被看到的地方，有可能距离很远，但仍出现在那里。我知道，那些允许幻觉愚弄自己的人不会相信这一点，但真相的确如此。我通过以下事实向那些不相信自己无法亲眼看到的任何东西（即便这只是一种幻觉）的灵人说明了这一点，即：类似现象也发生在世人当中。以说话者的声音传到另一人的耳中为例：听见的人若不知道如何辨别声音（这种事是他从小就通过经历学会的），并看见说话者在远处，必以为说话者就在自己耳边。这同样适用于一个人看到远处物体的情形，即：若非同时看见中间的其它物体，并根据这些物体知道，或凭自己所知道的判断出距离，他会以为远处的物体近在眼前。灵人的言语更是这种情形，这是内在言语；而他们的视觉是内在视觉。
此外，我告诉灵人，当明显的经验表明一个事实时，他们不应该因它在感官上似乎不是这样，并且他们无法感知它而怀疑它，更不应该否认它。甚至自然界也有许多与感官幻觉相反的东西，但人们仍旧相信它们，因为可见的经验教导了他们。以环球航行为例：让自己被幻觉左右的人可能以为船只和水手在到达对岸时会从边缘掉落，并且在地球正对面的人永远无法双脚站立。这同样适用于此处的主题和来世其它许多与感官幻觉相反，但却千真万确的现象；如这一事实：人凭自己没有生命，而是从主获得生命；以及其它许多事。这些和其它考虑能使怀疑的灵人信服事实正如我们所说的那样。
New Century Edition
Cooper(2008,2013)
[NCE]1378. I have learned, both by talking with angels and by personal experience, that spirits as spirits are not in the place they appear to be, so far as the organic substances{*1} composing the [spiritual] bodies they have are concerned. They can be very far off and still appear in that place. I realize that people who allow illusions to fool them will not believe this, but it is still the fact of the matter.
I illustrated this to spirits who would not believe anything they could not see with their eyes (even if it was merely an illusion) by the fact that something similar happens with human beings in the world. Take the sound in your ear of another person talking. If you did not know better — from practice gained since infancy in learning to tell sounds apart, and from seeing the distance — you would inevitably believe that the speaker was close to your ear. Long-distance vision is similar. If you did not know better because of seeing what intervenes, or calculate the distance on the basis of previous knowledge, you would believe a remote object to be right in front of your eyes. How much more so with spirits' speech, which is inner speech, and their eyesight, which is inner sight!
[2] Moreover I said that it was no grounds for doubt, still less for denial, to say that such-and-such does not appear that way to your senses and that you cannot perceive it to be so, when manifest experience dictates otherwise. There are many things in the physical world that run contrary to the illusions of the senses but are accepted because of lessons taught by visual experience. An example is the act of sailing around the world. People who allow illusions to mislead them would believe that ship and sailor would both fall off when they reached the opposite side, and that people on the other side of the world could not possibly stand on their feet.
The same is the case with this fact and many others in the next life that contradict sensory illusions and yet are true, such as the notion that we do not have life on our own but only from the Lord, and so on and so on.
With these arguments and others I was able to convince doubting spirits to believe that the situation was as described.
Footnotes:
{*1} The Latin word here translated "organic" is organicus, the meaning of which includes the notions "living" as well as "structured," or "organized." Thus "organic substance" in this context refers to substance that is structured into living organs of the human body comparable to those in the material world. On the meaning of "substance," see note 1 in 1808. [GFD]
Potts(1905-1910) 1378
1378. I have been informed, both by conversation with angels, and by living experience, that spirits, as spirits, in regard to the organic forms which constitute their bodies, are not in the place where they are seen, but may be far away, and yet appear there. I know that they who suffer themselves to be carried away by fallacies will not believe this, but still the case is so. This has been illustrated to those spirits who have believed nothing to be true that they did not see with their eyes-even if this were mere fallacy-by the fact that something similar is exhibited among men in the world. Take for instance the sound of a speaker's voice coming to the ear of another person: if the person who hears it did not know to the contrary, by the discriminations of sound, learned by experience from infancy, and did not see the speaker at a distance, he would have no other belief than that the speaker was close to his ear. So with a man who sees remote objects: if he did not at the same time see intervening objects, and know from them, or judge of the distance by what he knows, he would believe a distant object to be near his eye. Much more is this the case with the speech of spirits, which is interior speech; and with their sight, which is interior sight. [2] And the spirits were told, further, that when plain experience declares a fact, they ought not to doubt, and still less deny it, on the ground that it does not so appear to the senses, and that they do not perceive it. For even within the realm of nature there are many things that are contrary to the fallacies of the senses, but are believed because visible experience teaches them. For example, the sailing of a ship around the globe: they who suffer themselves to be carried away by the fallacies of the senses, might believe that ship and sailors would fall off when they came to the opposite side, and that the people at the antipodes could never stand upon their feet. Such also is the case with the subject before us, and with many things in the other life that are contrary to the fallacies of the senses, and yet are true-as that man has no life of himself, but from the Lord; and very many other things. By these and other considerations, incredulous spirits could be brought to believe that the case is as we have stated it.
Elliott(1983-1999) 1378
1378. I have learned both through talking to angels and through actual experience that spirits, as spirits, are not, so far as the organic substances which constitute their bodies are concerned, in the place where they seem to be, but are possibly far away, and yet they still appear there. I know that people who allow themselves to be swayed by illusions will not believe it, but this is nevertheless the truth. This has been illustrated to spirits who have believed nothing to be true which they did not see with their eyes, even though this were sheer illusion, by means of something comparable to that found with men in the world. Take for example the sound of someone's voice in another person's ear. Unless that person knew how to distinguish sounds - something he has learned from experience to do since infancy - and unless he saw him at a distance, he would inevitably believe the speaker to be right next to his ear. The same applies in the case of someone beholding objects remote from himself. Unless he saw at the same time other objects in between and so knew from these, or inferred the distance from what he already knew, he would imagine a distant object to be right next to his eye. This is all the more true of the speech of spirits, which is interior speech, and also of their sight, which is interior sight.
[2] The spirits were also told that when plain experience suggested something they ought not therefore to doubt it, even less to deny it, because it did not appear to be so to the senses and they were unable to perceive it. Even in the world of nature many things exist which are contrary to the illusions of the senses, but which people believe because of what visible experience teaches them. Take for example sailing round the world. People who allow themselves to be swayed by illusions would believe that a boat and its crew would fall off the edge when they got to the other side, and that people in the antipodes could never stand on their feet. The same applies to this and many other things in the next life which are contrary to the illusions of the senses but are nevertheless true - for example, the fact that man does not possess life of himself but from the Lord, and many other things. These and other considerations have enabled disbelieving spirits to be brought to believe that it is indeed so.
Latin(1748-1756) 1378
1378. Informatus sum, tam per loquelam cum angelis quam per vivam experientiam, quod spiritus, ut spiritus, quoad organica quae corpora eorum constituunt, non sint in illo loco ubi videntur, sed quod possint procul inde abesse, et usque apparere ibi; scio quod illi qui a fallaciis se abduci patiuntur, non credituri, sed usque se ita res habet: hoc illustratum est coram iis spiritibus qui nihil crediderunt esse verum quod non oculis viderent, tametsi mera fallacia esset, per id quod simile quoddam exhibeatur apud homines in mundo; sicut sonus loquentis in alterius aure; nisi sciret homo a discriminationibus soni doctis per usum ab infantia et videret distantem, nihil aliud crederet quam quod loquens prope aurem esset: similiter homo qui videt aliqua a se remota, nisi videret simul intermedia et inde nosset, aut ex eo quod sciat, concluderet distantiam, putaret objectum distans proxime ad oculum esse; magis adhuc loquela spirituum quae loquela interior, tum visus eorum qui est visus interior: et porro dictum quod ideo non dubitare minus negare debeant, quia non ita apparet coram sensibus, et id non percipere possint, cum manifesta experientia dictat; sicut etiam plura sunt intra naturam quae contra fallacias sensuum sunt, sed quia visibilis experientia docet, creditur; ut navigatio circum globum telluris; qui fallaciis se auferri patiuntur, crederent et navim et nautas cum in opposito sunt, delabi, et quod antipodes nusquam stare possent pedibus: similiter se habet cum hoc et cum multis aliis in altera vita quae fallaciis sensuum contraria sunt et usque sunt vera; sicut quod homo non vitam habeat a se sed a Domino, et perplura alia. Ex his et aliis potuerunt spiritus increduli adduci ad credendum quod ita se res habeat.