2515、“对他说”表示由此而来，也就是来自感知的思考。这从“说”的含义清楚可知，“说”是指感知，以及思考，如前所示（2506节）。由于我在此说思考来自一种感知，所以就让我用几句话来说明思考是怎么回事。思考有来自感知的，有来自良心的，还有来自无良心的。由感知产生的思考只对属天人来说是可能的，也就是只对那些爱主的人来说是可能的。存在于人类里面的这种思考是最内在的；并且它存在于天上的属天天使里面。来自主的感知是他们思考的方式和源头，违背感知思考是不可能的。由良心产生的思考相对低级，不那么高尚。它们存在于属灵人里面，也就是存在于那些在生活和教义上处于仁与信之良善的人里面。此外，对这些人来说，违背良心思考是不可能的，因为这将是违背主通过良心指示给他们的良善和真理思考。
然而，由无良心产生的思考则存在于那些不允许自己从内在被良善和真理掌管，而是允许自己被邪恶和虚假掌管，也就是说，不允许自己被主掌管，而是允许自己被自己掌管的人里面。这些人以为他们和那些出于良心或感知思考的人一样从内在思考，因为他们不知道什么是良心，更不知道什么是感知。然而，他们的思考与那些人的思考之间的差别，就像地狱与天堂之间的差别一样大。那些思考缺乏良心的人出于一切恶欲和谬念或幻想，因而出于地狱思考。他们若以其它方式思考，也是为了名声而出于外在的体面如此思考。但那些出于良心思考的人是出于对良善和真理的情感，因而出于天堂思考。至于主的思考，它超出所有人类的理解，因为它直接来自神性。
Potts(1905-1910) 2515
2515. And said to him. That this signifies thought therefrom, namely, from the perception, is evident from the signification of "saying," as being to perceive, and also to think (as shown in n. 2506). As it is here said that there was thought from the perception, it may be well to state in a few words how the case is with thought. There are thoughts from perception; thoughts from conscience; and thoughts from no conscience. Thoughts from perception exist only with the celestial, that is, with those who are in love to the Lord; such thought is the most internal that exists with man; and it exists with the celestial angels in heaven, for it is perception from the Lord by which and from which their thought exists; and to think contrary to perception is impossible. Thoughts from conscience are lower, and exist with the spiritual, that is, with those who are in the good of charity and faith as to life and as to doctrine. Moreover with these persons to think contrary to conscience is impossible; for this would be to think against the good and truth which are dictated to them from the Lord through conscience. [2] But thoughts from no conscience exist with those who do not suffer themselves to be inwardly directed by what is good and true, but only by what is evil and false; that is, not by the Lord, but by themselves. Such persons believe that they inwardly think just as do those who think from conscience and perception, for the reason that they do not know what conscience is, still less perception; but the difference is as great as is that between hell and heaven. They who think without conscience think from any cupidities and phantasies whatever; thus from hell; and when it seems otherwise, it is from external decorum for the sake of reputation. But they who think from conscience think from the affections of good and truth; thus from heaven. But as regards the Lord's thought, it transcended all human understanding, for it was immediately from the Divine.
Elliott(1983-1999) 2515
2515. 'And said to him' means thought springing from this, that is to say, from the perception. This is clear from the meaning of 'saying' as perceiving, and also as thinking, dealt with above in 2506. Since it is said here that the thought was derived from the perception, let a brief statement be made about thought. There are thoughts that derive from perception, thoughts that derive from conscience, and thoughts that derive from no conscience. Thoughts deriving from perception exist with celestial people only, that is, with those who are moved by love to the Lord. Such thought is the most internal to exist with man; and it exists with celestial angels in heaven. Perception from the Lord is the means and the source of their thought, and thinking contrary to perception is an impossibility. Thoughts deriving from conscience are of a lower order and exist with spiritual people, that is, with those who in life and in doctrine are moved by good that stems from charity and faith. For them as well, thinking contrary to conscience is an impossibility, for that would be thinking contrary to the good and truth which the Lord dictates to them by means of conscience.
[2] Thoughts deriving from no conscience however exist with people who do not allow themselves to be governed inwardly by good and truth but by evil and falsity, that is, not by the Lord but by themselves. They imagine that they think inwardly just as much as those who do so from conscience and perception, the reason being that they do not know what conscience is, still less what perception is, though the difference between their thought and that of people thinking from conscience or perception is as great as that between hell and heaven. People whose thought is devoid of conscience think from every evil desire and false notion, and so from hell. When they think in any other manner they do so from an outward respectability for the sake of reputation. But people who think from conscience do so from affections for good and truth, and so from heaven. As for the Lord's thought however, this surpasses all human understanding, for it sprang directly from the Divine.
Latin(1748-1756) 2515
2515. `Et dixit ei': quod significet inde cogitationem, nempe ex perceptione, constat `a significatione `dicere' quod sit percipere, tum cogitare, de qua supra n. 2506. Quia hic dicitur quod cogitatio fuerit inde, paucis licet dicere quomodo se habet cum cognitione sunt cogitationes ex perceptione, cogitationes ex conscientia, e cogitationes ex nulla conscientia. Cogitationes ex perceptione dantur solum apud caelestes, hoc est, apud illos qui in amore in Dominum sunt, estque intima quae datur apud hominem, et est apud angelos caelestes in caelo; perceptio ex Domino est, per quam et ex qua eorum cogitatio; contra perceptionem cogitare est impossibile. Cogitatione ex conscientia sunt inferiores, et dantur apud spirituales, hoc est, apud eos qui in bono charitatis et fidei sunt quoad vitam et quoad doctrinam contra conscientiam cogitare iis quoque est impossibile, nam hoc fore contra bonum et veram quod iis a Domino dictatur per conscientiam. [2] Cogitationes autem ex nulla conscientia sunt apud illos qui se intus non regi patiuntur a bono et vero, sed a malo et falso, hoc est, non Domino, sed a semet: hi credunt quod cogitent tantum intra se quantum ii qui ex conscientia et perceptione, ex causa quia non sciunt quid conscientia, minus perceptio, sed tanta est differentia, quanta inter infernum et caelum; qui absque conscientia cogitant, ex quibusvis cupiditatibus et phantasiis cogitant, ita ab inferno; (m)dum vero aliter, est ex decoro externo propter famam(n); qui vero a conscientia cogitant, ex affectionibus boni et veri cogitant, ita a caelo. Quod autem Domini cogitationem attinet, ea transcendit omnem intellectum humanum fuit enim immediate ex Divino.