4585.“他们从伯特利起行，这里要到以法他，还有几里地”表现在是属天层的属灵层。这从“从伯特利起行”、“还有几里地”和“以法他”的含义清楚可知：“从伯特利起行”是指神性自神性属世层发展的继续，“起行”（journeying）表示继续（参看4554节），此处在至高意义上表示神性发展的继续，“伯特利”是指神性属世层（4559，4560节）；“还有几里地”是指居间物，下文所述；“以法他”是指处于前一个状态，也就是初始状态的属天层的属灵层，如下面论述伯特利的地方所述。“伯特利”表示处于一个新状态的属天层的属灵层，这就是为何经上说“以法他，就是伯利恒”（35:19）。
这几节论述的主题是主的神性朝向内层事物的前进或发展，因为当主将祂的人身变成神性时，祂的前进或发展就涉及祂通过（人的）重生使他变新时所遵循的类似次序。也就是说，这是一个从外在事物向着内层事物，因而从存在于次序终端的真理向着更为内层、被称为属灵良善的良善，再由此向着属天良善前进或发展的过程。不过，对这些事的观念不在任何人的理解范畴内，除非他知道何为外在人，何为内在人，并且前者与后者区别显着，彼此分离，尽管人活在肉身期间，这二者看似是同一个；以及除非他知道属世层构成外在人，理性层构成内在人；尤其知道何为属灵层，何为属天层。
诚然，这些事早就解释过数次；然而，那些之前因不想知道关于永生的事而对它们没有任何概念的人，却觉得不可能拥有任何概念。这些人会说：“什么是内在人，它能与外在人有什么区别？”他们还会说：“什么属世层和理性层？它们难道不是一回事吗？”然后，他们会问：“什么是属灵层和属天层？这不是某种新的区别吗？我们听说过属灵层，但没有听说过属天层是某种不同的事物。”而真相却是：这些人都是以前对这些问题没有任何概念的人。他们之所以没有获得任何概念，要么是因为对世界和身体的关注占据了他们全部的思维，夺走了知道其它任何事的一切渴望；要么是因为他们以为，只知道他们通常所知道的教义就足够了，进一步思想这些问题是没有用的。事实上，这些人会说：“世界是我们看到的，但来世我们并没有看到。它或许存在，或许不存在。”像这样的人就把这些观念从自己那里推开了，因为这些人一看到它们，就发自内心拒绝。
尽管如此，由于这类观念就包含在圣言的内义中；只是若没有适合描述它们的术语，就无法解释它们，并且由于除了用“属世”这个术语来表达外层事物，用“理性”这个术语来表达内层事物，用“属灵”这个术语来表达那些属于真理的事物，用“属天”这个术语来表达那些属于良善的事物外，我们找不到更合适的词语，故使用这些术语是绝对有必要的。因为若没有合适的术语或词语，就无法描述任何事物。因此，为叫那些渴望知道何为“便雅悯”所代表、“伯利恒”所表示的属天层的属灵层之人能形成对它的某种概念，有必要在此对它作以简要解释。就至高意义而言，所论述的主题一直是主的属世层的荣耀；但就相对意义而言，则是人的属世层的重生。前面（4286节）说明，“雅各”代表教会之人的外在人，“以色列”代表他的内在人，因而“雅各”代表属世层的外层，“以色列”代表属世层的内层，因为属灵人是从属世人发展而来的，属天人是从理性人发展而来的。前面还说明，主的荣耀甚至照着人的重生发展的方式从外在事物发展到更为内层的事物，并且为了这种代表的缘故，雅各得了“以色列”这个名字。
但现在论述的主题是，朝向还要内层的事物，也就是理性层的进一步发展，因为如刚才所述，理性层构成内在人。属世层的内在与理性层的外在之间的居间部分就是所谓的“属天层的属灵层”，这“属天层的属灵层”由“以法他”和“伯利恒”来表示，由“便雅悯”来代表。该居间部分在某种程度上源于“以色列”所表示的属世层的内在；在某种程度上又源于“约瑟”所表示的理性层的外在；因为居间部分从每个极端，或两边获得某种事物，否则，它就无法充当一个居间物。早已变得属灵之人若要变得属天，就必须通过这居间部分前进或发展。因为没有这居间部分，要攀升到更高事物是不可能的。
故此处雅各到以法他，并且拉结在那里生下便雅悯在内义就描述了通过这居间部分前进或发展的性质。由此明显可知“他们从伯特利起行，这里要到以法他，还有几里地”表示主的神性从神性属世层向着由“以法他”和“伯特利”所表示、“便雅悯”所代表的属天层的属灵层前进或发展的继续。属天层的属灵层就是前面所说的居间部分；在源于属灵人这一点上，它是属灵的，属灵人就本身而言，是属世人的内层；在源于属天人这一点上，它又是属天的，属天人就本身而言，是理性人。“约瑟”就是外层理性人，故源于理性层的属灵层的属天层论及他。
Potts(1905-1910) 4585
4585. And they journeyed from Bethel, and there was still a tract of land to come to Ephrath. That this signifies that now was the spiritual of the celestial, is evident from the signification of "journeying from Bethel" as being what is continuous of the advancement of the Divine from the Divine natural (that "journeying" denotes what is continuous may be seen above, n. 4554, here in the supreme sense what is continuous of the advancement of the Divine, and that "Bethel" is the Divine natural, n. 4559, 4560); from the signification of a "tract of land in coming," as being what is intermediate (of which in what follows); and from the signification of "Ephrath," as being the spiritual of the celestial in a former state (of which below where Bethlehem is treated of, which is the spiritual of the celestial in a new state), hence it is said, "Ephrath, this is Bethlehem" (verse 19). [2] In these verses the subject treated of is the advancement of the Lord's Divine toward interior things, for when the Lord made His Human Divine He advanced in a like order to that in which He makes man new by regeneration, namely, from what is external to interior things, thus from the truth which is in the ultimate of order to a good which is interior, and is called spiritual good, and from this to celestial good. But these things cannot fall into the understanding of anyone unless it is known what the external man and the internal man are, and that the former is distinct from the latter, although while man is living in the body they appear as one; also unless it is known that the natural constitutes the external man, and the rational the internal; and further, unless it is known what the spiritual is and what the celestial. [3] These things have indeed already been occasionally unfolded, nevertheless they who have previously had no idea about them in consequence of having no desire to know the things of eternal life, find it impossible to have any such idea. Such people say, "What is the internal man? Is it possible that it can be distinct from the external? What is the natural, and the rational? Are they not one? Moreover, What is the spiritual, and the celestial? Is not this a new distinction? We have heard of the spiritual, but that the celestial is something else we have not heard." The case however is thus: They who have not previously acquired any idea on these subjects, for the reason that the cares of the world and of the body have possession of all their thought and take away all desire of knowing anything else; or because they deem it sufficient to know their doctrinal tenets as they are commonly known, and that it is of no consequence to have any further thought about the matter, saying, "We see the world, but the other life we do not see, perhaps it exists and perhaps not"-much persons put away all these subjects, for even at the first look they at heart reject them. [4] Nevertheless as they are such things as are contained in the internal sense of the Word, and these cannot be explained without adequate terms, and we have no terms more adequate for expressing exterior things than the term natural, for interior things than the term rational, for those things which are of truth the term spiritual, and those which are of good the term celestial, it is absolutely necessary to make use of these terms, for without terms adapted to the subject nothing can be described. In order therefore that those who desire to know may receive some idea of what the spiritual of the celestial is which Benjamin represents and which "Bethlehem" signifies, I will briefly explain it. In the supreme sense the subject that has been treated of is the glorification of the Lord's natural, and in the relative sense the regeneration of man as to his natural. That Jacob represented the man of the church as to his external, and Israel as to his internal, thus Jacob as to his exterior natural, and Israel as to his interior natural, has been shown above (n. 4286); for the spiritual man is from the natural, and the celestial man is from the rational. It has also been shown that the Lord's glorification advanced from external things to more interior things, in like manner as the regeneration of man advances, and that for the sake of this representation Jacob was called "Israel." [5] But a further advance toward more interior things is now treated of, namely, toward the rational, for as just said, the rational constitutes the internal man. The intermediate between the internal of the natural and the external of the rational is what is meant by the spiritual of the celestial, which is signified by "Ephrath" and "Bethlehem," and is represented by Benjamin. This intermediate derives somewhat from the internal of the natural which is "Israel," and from the external of the rational which is "Joseph;" for that which is intermediate derives something from each extreme, otherwise it could not serve as an intermediate. In order that anyone from being spiritual may become celestial, he must needs advance through this intermediate, for to climb up to higher things without an intermediate is not possible. [6] And therefore the nature of the advance through this intermediate is here described by Jacob's coming to Ephrath, and by Rachel's bringing forth Benjamin there. Hence it is evident that by their journeying from Bethel, and by there being yet a tract of land to come to Ephrath, is signified what is continuous of the advancement of the Lord's Divine from the Divine natural to the spiritual of the celestial which is signified by "Ephrath" and "Bethlehem," and is represented by Benjamin. The spiritual of the celestial is the intermediate that is spoken of, being called "spiritual" from the spiritual man, which viewed in itself is the interior of the natural man, and "celestial" from the celestial man, which viewed in itself is the rational man. "Joseph" is the exterior rational man, and therefore the celestial of the spiritual from the rational is predicated of him.
Elliott(1983-1999) 4585
4585. 'They travelled on from Bethel, and there was still a stretch of land to go to Ephrath' means the spiritual of the celestial at this point. This is clear from the meaning of 'travelling on from Bethel' as a continuation of the progress of the Divine from the Divine Natural - 'travelling on' meaning a continuation, see 4554, and here in the highest sense a continuation of the progress made by the Divine, while 'Bethel' means the Divine Natural, 4559, 4560; from the meaning of 'a stretch of land to go' as that which exists in between, dealt with below; and from the meaning of 'Ephrath' as the spiritual of the celestial within the initial state, dealt with below where Bethlehem is the subject.a 'Bethlehem' means the spiritual of the celestial within the new state, and this is why the phrase 'Ephrath, that is, Bethlehem' is used in verse 19 below.
[2] In these verses progress made by the Lord's Divine towards aspects more interior is the subject, for when the Lord made His Human Divine His progress involved a similar order to that employed by Him when He makes man new through regeneration. That is to say, it was a progression from external things to more interior ones, and so from truth as this exists in the ultimate degree of order to good which is more interior and is called spiritual good, and from this to celestial good. But ideas about these things do not come within the mental grasp of anyone unless he knows what the external man is and what the internal man is, and that the former is distinct and separate from the latter, though the two seem to be one and the same while a person lives in the body. Nor do those ideas come within his grasp unless he knows that the natural constitutes the external man, and the rational the internal man, and above all unless he knows what the spiritual is, and what the celestial is.
[3] These matters, it is true, have been explained several times already. Even so, those who have not previously had any idea concerning them - for the reason that they have not had any desire to know the things which belong to eternal life - are incapable of having any such idea. These people say, 'What is the internal man? How can it be anything different from the external man?' They also say, 'What is the natural, or the rational? Are these not one and the same thing?' Then they ask, 'What is the spiritual and the celestial? Isn't this some new distinction? We've heard about the spiritual, but not that the celestial is something different'. But the fact of the matter is that these are people who have not previously acquired any idea of these matters. They have failed to do so either because the cares of the world and of the body occupy their whole thought and take away all desire to know anything else, or because they suppose that no one needs to know anything beyond what the common people are taught and that there is nothing to be gained if their thought goes any further. For these say, 'The world we see, but the next life we do not see. Maybe it exists, maybe it doesn't'. People like these push those ideas away from themselves, for at heart they reject them the moment they see them.
[4] All the same, because such ideas are contained in the internal sense of the Word, though they cannot be explained without suitable terms to depict them, and as no terms more suitable exist than 'natural' to express exterior things and 'rational' to express interior, or 'spiritual' to express matters of truth and 'celestial' masters of good, the use of words like these is unavoidable. For without the right words nothing can be described. Therefore so that some idea may be formed by those who have a desire to know what the spiritual of the celestial is, which 'Benjamin' represents and which 'Bethlehem' means, a brief reference to it must be made here. The subject so far in the highest sense has been the glorification of the Lord's Natural, and in the relative sense the regeneration of man's natural. It was shown above, in 4286, that 'Jacob' represented the external man of one who belongs to the Church, and 'Israel' his internal man, thus that 'Jacob' represented the exterior aspect of the natural and 'Israel' the interior aspect; for the spiritual man develops out of the natural, but the celestial man out of the rational. It was also shown that the Lord's glorification advanced, even as the regeneration of man advances, from external things to more interior ones, and that for the sake of such a representation Jacob received the name Israel.
[5] But now the subject is further progress towards aspects more interior still, that is, towards the rational, for as stated immediately above, the rational constitutes the internal man. The part which exists between the internal of the natural and the external of the rational is what the term 'the spiritual of the celestial'- meant by 'Ephrath' and 'Bethlehem', and represented by 'Benjamin'- is used to denote. This intermediate part is derived to some extent from the internal of the natural, meant by 'Israel', and to some extent from the external of the rational, meant by 'Joseph'; for that intermediate part must be derived to some extent from each one, or else it cannot serve as an intermediary. So that anyone who is already spiritual can be made celestial he must of necessity make progress by means of this intermediate part. Without it no advance to higher things is possible.
[6] The nature of the progress made therefore by means of this intermediate part is described here in the internal sense by the statements that Jacob went to Ephrath, and that Rachel gave birth to Benjamin there. From this it is evident that 'they travelled on from Bethel, and there was still a stretch of land to go to Ephrath' means a continuation of the progress of the Lord's Divine from the Divine Natural to the spiritual of the celestial, meant by 'Ephrath' and 'Bethlehem', and represented by 'Benjamin'. The spiritual of the celestial is the intermediate part about which something is said above; it is spiritual insofar as it is derived from the spiritual man, which regarded in itself is the interior natural man, and it is [celestial] insofar as it is derived from the celestial man, which regarded in itself is the rational man. 'Joseph' is the exterior rational man, and therefore he is spoken of as the celestial of the spiritual derived from the rational.
Latin(1748-1756) 4585
4585. `Profecti a Bethel, et fuit adhuc tractus terrae ad veniendum Ephratam': quod significet quod nunc spirituale caelestis, constat a significatione `proficisci a Bethel' quod sit continuum progressionis Divini a Divino Naturali; quod `proficisci' sit continuum, videatur n. 4554, hic in supremo sensu continuum progressionis Divini, et quod Bethel sit Divinum Naturale, n. 4559, 4560; {1} (c)a significatione `tractus terrae ad veniendum' quod sit intermedium, de qua sequitur; et (c)a significatione `Ephratae' quod sit spirituale caelestis in statu priore, de qua infra ubi de Bethlehem, quae est spirituale caelestis in statu novo, inde dicitur `Ephrath haec Bethlehem,' vers. seq. 19. Agitur in his versibus de progressione Divini Domini versus interiora; [2] Dominus enim cum Humanum Suum Divinum fecit, simili ordine progressus est quo cum hominem per regenerationem novum facit, nempe ab externis {2} ad interiora, ita a vero quod in ultimo ordinis ad bonum quod interius est et bonum spirituale vocatur, et inde ad bonum caeleste; sed haec in intellectum alicujus cadere nequeunt nisi sciatur quid homo externus et homo internus, et quod ille {3} ab hoc distinctus sit, tametsi apparent cum homo vivit in corpore, sicut unum; tum nisi sciatur quod naturale constituat externum hominem, et rationale internum; et insuper nisi sciatur quid spirituale et quid caeleste; [3] haec quidem aliquoties prius explicata sunt, sed usque qui nullam ideam de illis prius habuerunt, ex causa quia non in aliquo desiderio fuerunt sciendi illa quae sunt vitae aeternae, nec ullam habere possunt; hi dicunt {4}, quid homo internus? an is potest esse distinctus ab externo? tum quid naturale et rationale, annon unum? insuper quid spirituale et caeleste, anne nova distinctio? de spirituali audivimus, quod caeleste sit aliud, non audivimus; sed usque ita se res habet, qui de illis non aliquam ideam sibi prius comparaverunt, ex causa quod curae mundi et corporis possideant {5} omne cogitationis, et auferant {6} omne desiderii sciendi aliud, vel quod autument satis esse scire doctrinalia quantum vulgus, et quod non interest ultra cogitare quia mundum videmus, alteram vitam non videmus, fortassis est, et fortassis non; illi qui tales sunt, haec removent {7} a se, nam usque ad primam intuitionem corde rejiciunt: [4] verumtamen quia talia sunt quae in Verbi sensu interno continentur, et illa absque terminis adaequatis explicari nequeunt, et termini adaequatiores non dantur ad exprimendum exteriora quam per `naturale,' et interiora per `rationale', et illa quae sunt veri per `spirituale', et illa quae sunt boni per `caeleste', non potest aliter quam illas voces in usum adhibere, nam absque vocibus rei adaequatis nihil potest describi; ut itaque illi qui in desiderio sciendi sunt, aliquam ideam accipiant quid `spirituale caelestis {8} quod Benjamin repraesentat et quod Bethlehem significat, paucis dicendum: actum est in sensu supremo de glorificatione Naturalis Domini, et in sensu respectivo de regeneratione hominis quoad ejus naturale; quod `Jacob' repraesentaverit hominem Ecclesiae quoad ejus externum, et `Israel' quoad internum, ita `Jacob' quoad {9} naturale ejus exterius, et `Israel' quoad interius, n. 4286,' in praecedentibus ostensum est, nam spiritualis homo est ex naturali, caelestis autem ex rationali; tum ostensum, quod glorificatio Domini processerit ab externis ad interiora, {10} similiter ac procedit regeneratio hominis, et quod repraesentationis hujus causa Jacob vocatus sit Israel; [5] nunc autem agitur de progressione ulteriore versus interiora, nempe versus rationale, nam, ut mox supra dictum, rationale constituit internum hominem; intermedium inter internum naturalis et externum rationalis, est quod intelligitur per spirituale caelestis, quod significatur per `Ephratam' et `Bethlehem,' et repraesentatur per `Benjaminem'; hoc intermedium trahit aliquid ab interno naturalis quod est `Israel', et ab externo rationalis quod est `Josephus'; quod enim intermedium est, trahit aliquid ab utroque, alioquin pro intermedio inservire non potest; ut aliquis a spirituali fiat caelestis, necessario progredietur per hoc intermedium; absque intermedio scandere ad superiora non possibile est: [6] qualis itaque progressus sit per intermedium illud describitur hic in sensu interno per quod `venerit Jacob ad Ephratam', et quod {11} `ibi Rachel pepererit Benjaminem'; inde patet quod per `profecti a Bethel, et fuit adhuc tractus terrae ad veniendum Ephratam' significetur continuum progressionis Divini Domini a Divino Naturali ad spirituale caelestis, quod per Ephratam et Bethlehem `Benjaminem repraesentatur': (m)est spirituale {12} caelestis intermedium illud, de quo dictum; spirituale dicitur a spirituali homine, qui in se spectatus est interior naturalis {13}, et [caelestis] a caelesti homine, qui in se spectatus est rationalis; `Josephus' est exterior rationalis, quare de eo praedicatur caeleste spiritualis e rationali.(n) @1 i et$ @2 externo I$ @3 illae I$ @4 dicunt enim$ @5 possederint$ @6 abstulerint$ @7 removeant I$ @8 AI have caeleste spiritualis, but this is evidently an accidental transposition.$ @9 Naturale externum, et Israel Naturale internum$ @10 i et$ @11 quodque$ @12 i enim$ @13 I has a comma here, but there is no sign of it in A and it seems to destroy the sense. Probably interior is also to be understood before rationalis in next line.$