5477.“他们不知道约瑟听见他们”表凭这些真理所在的属世之光不会相信，属灵之光使一切事物都变得可见。这从“不知道的雅各的儿子们”的含义和“约瑟”的代表清楚可知：“不知道的雅各的儿子们”是指外在教会的真理，因而是指属世层中的真理，如前面频繁所述，凭这些真理所在的属世之光不会相信这层含义由此而来；“约瑟”是指居于属灵之光的属灵层的属天层。不过，这属灵之光会使得属世层中的真理变得可见，这一点由“约瑟听见他们”来表示；因为“听见”既表示顺从，也表示觉知（参看5017节）。因此，属灵之光使得属世层中的真理变得可见；但属世之光却无法使属灵层中的真理变得可见。
关于属世之光和属灵之光，情况是这样：属世之光是从尘世太阳流出的，属灵之光是从天堂的太阳，也就是主流出的。人藉着诸如来源于尘世之光的那类物体和由这些物体所形成的观念来理解他自童年早期所学到的一切信之真理；因此，每一个事物他都是作属世的理解；因为只要人活在世上，他的一切思维观念都会建立于存在于世界中的那类事物上。因此，如果这些东西从他那里被拿走，他的思维就会完全被摧毁、灭亡。没有重生的人完全不知道属灵之光的存在，甚至不知道天堂也有一种光，这光与尘世之光没有丝毫共同之处。他更不知道，正是这属灵之光光照源于尘世之光的观念和物体，能使人思考、推断和反思它们。属灵之光之所以能做到这一切，是因为这光是从主发出的智慧本身，这智慧在天堂天使的眼前显为光。这光使得在它之下的每一个事物，也就是在人里面来自属世之光的每一个事物变得可见。但反过来不行，除非此人已经重生，在这种情况下，属于天堂，也就是良善与真理的事物就被属灵之光点亮，并且显现在属世之光中，如同显现在一个具有代表性的镜子里。
由此明显可知，主作为光本身，能看见存在于人的思维和意愿中，甚至存在于整个自然界中的每一个事物；根本没有任何事物能逃过祂的注意力、向祂隐藏。综上所述，现清楚可知此中情形如何，即：凭这些真理所在的属世之光，是不会相信属灵之光使一切事物变得可见，这一点由他们“不知道约瑟听见他们”来表示。“约瑟认得他哥哥们，他们却不认得他”（42:8）也具有相似的含义。因为这些话表示属灵层的属天层凭它所拥有的光能看见教会的真理，但源于神性的真理在尚未被天堂之光光照的属世之光中却是看不见的（参看5427-5428节）。
Potts(1905-1910) 5477
5477. And they knew not that Joseph heard them. That this signifies that from the natural light in which those truths are, it is not believed that all things appear from spiritual light, is evident from the representation of the sons of Jacob, who "knew not," as being the truths of the external church, thus truths in the natural (of which often before), whence follows the signification that from the natural light in which these truths are it is not believed; and from the representation of Joseph, as being the celestial of the spiritual, which is in spiritual light. That from this light appear the truths in the natural, is signified by "Joseph's hearing them;" for "to hear" signifies both to obey and to perceive (see n. 5017), thus that the truths in the natural appeared from spiritual light, but not the converse. [2] In regard to natural light and spiritual light the case is this: natural light is from the sun of the world, and spiritual light is from the sun of heaven, which is the Lord. All the truths of faith that man learns from infancy are apprehended by means of such objects and derivative ideas as are from the light of the world, thus all and each are apprehended naturally; for all the ideas of man's thought, so long as he lives in the world, are founded upon such things as are in the world; and therefore if these were taken away from him, his thought would utterly perish. The man who has not been regenerated is wholly ignorant that there is spiritual light, or even that there is in heaven a light that has nothing in common with the light of the world, still less does he know that it is this light that enlightens the ideas and objects which are from the light of the world, and enables man to think, infer, and reflect. That spiritual light can do this is because this light is the wisdom itself that proceeds from the Lord, and this is presented as light before the sight of the angels in heaven. From this light appear all and each of the things that are below, or that are in man from natural light; but not the converse, unless the man has been regenerated, in which case the things of heaven, that is, of good and truth, by enlightenment from spiritual light appear in the natural as in a representative mirror. From this it is evident that the Lord, who is light itself, sees all things and each that are in the thought and will of man, nay, that are in universal nature, and that nothing whatever is hidden from Him. [3] From all this it is now evident how the case herein is, namely, that from the natural light in which these truths are, it is not believed that all things appear from spiritual light, as is signified by their "not knowing that Joseph heard them." Joseph's knowing his brethren, and their not knowing him (verse 8 above), involves a similar meaning; for thereby is signified that these truths of the church appeared to the celestial of the spiritual from its light, and that truth from the Divine did not appear in natural light not yet illumined by heavenly light (see n. 5427-5428).
Elliott(1983-1999) 5477
5477. 'And they did not know that Joseph was hearing' means that the natural light in which those truths dwell does not engender any belief that spiritual light renders all things visible. This is clear from the representation of 'the sons of Jacob who did not know' as the truths which the external Church possesses, and so are present in the natural, often dealt with already - from which comes the meaning that the natural light in which those truths dwell does not engender any belief; and from the representation of 'Joseph' as the celestial of the spiritual, which dwells in spiritual light. But this spiritual light renders truths in the natural visible, and this is meant by 'Joseph was hearing'; for 'hearing' means both obeying and discerning, 5017. Thus spiritual light renders truths in the natural visible; but natural light cannot do the same for truths in the spiritual.
[2] The situation with natural light and spiritual light is as follows. Natural light flows from the sun in the world, and spiritual light flows from the Sun in heaven, which is the Lord. All the truths of faith that a person has learned since early childhood come to be understood by him with the help of the kinds of objects, and the ideas formed from these, that originate in the light of the world. Thus every single thing is seen in a natural way; for as long as he lives in the world all the ideas constituting a person's thought are based on the kinds of things that exist in the world. If therefore these things are taken away from him his thought is totally destroyed. One who has not been regenerated has no knowledge at all of the existence of spiritual light, not even of the existence in heaven of a light that has nothing in common with the light of the world. Still less does that person know that spiritual light is what lights up ideas and objects that originate in the light of the world and is what enables a person to think, draw conclusions, and reflect on them. The reason such spiritual light enables him to do this is that that light is wisdom itself which goes forth from the Lord; and that wisdom manifests itself as the light which the angels in heaven see before them. That light renders visible every single thing beneath it, that is, every single thing present with a person which is a product of natural light. But the reverse does not happen unless the person has been regenerated, in which case the things that belong to heaven, that is, forms of goodness and truth, are lit up by spiritual light and become visible in the natural as if in a representative mirror.
[3] From this it is evident that the Lord, who is Light itself, sees every single thing present in a person's thought and will, and present indeed in the whole natural creation; nothing at all escapes His notice. From all this one may now recognize what is involved here - that natural light in which those truths dwell does not engender any belief that spiritual light renders all things visible, meant by the words 'they did not know that Joseph was hearing'. Much the same is implied by the statement above in verse 8, 'Joseph recognized his brothers and they did not recognize him'. For these words mean that the truths of the Church were seen by the celestial of the spiritual by the light it possessed, and that truth from the Divine was not seen in natural light that was not yet brightened with heavenly light; see 5427, 5428.
Latin(1748-1756) 5477
5477. `Et illi non sciverunt quod audiens Joseph': quod significet quod e naturali luce in qua vera illa, non credatur quod (c)a spirituali luce omnia appareant, constat ex repraesentatione `filiorum Jacobi qui non sciverunt' quod sint vera Ecclesiae externae, ita in naturali, de qua saepe prius; inde est quod significetur quod e naturali luce in qua vera illa, non credatur; et ex repraesentatione `Josephi' quod sit caeleste spiritualis, quod in spirituali luce est; quod ex illa luce appareant vera in naturali, significatur per quod `audiens Joseph', `audire' enim significat et oboedire et appercipere, n. 5017; ita quod vera in naturali {1}e luce spirituali apparuerint, non autem vicissim. [2]Cum luce naturali et luce spirituali ita se habet: lux naturalis est a sole mundi, et lux spiritualis est a Sole caeli, Qui est Dominus; omnia vera fidei quae homo ab infantia haurit, capiuntur per talia objecta et inde ideas, quae sunt a luce mundi, ita omnia et singula naturaliter; omnes enim ideae cogitationis hominis, quamdiu is vivit in mundo, fundantur {2}super talibus quae sunt in mundo, quapropter si haec illi auferrentur, periret prorsus ejus cogitatio; homo qui non regeneratus est, prorsus nescit quod lux spiritualis detur, ne quidem quod in caelo detur lux quae nihil commune habet cum luce mundi; minus scit quod illa lux sit quae illustrat ideas et objecta quae sunt a luce mundi, et facit ut homo possit cogitare, concludere, reflectere; quod spiritualis haec lux id facere possit, est quia lux illa est ipsa sapientia quae procedit a Domino; {3}illa ut lux sistitur coram visu angelorum in caelo; ex hac luce apparent omnia et singula quae infra sunt, seu quae ex naturali luce apud hominem sunt, non autem vicissim nisi homo regeneratus sit; tunc illa quae caeli sunt, hoc est, quae boni et veri, ex illustratione a luce spirituali apparent in naturali sicut in speculo repraesentativo; inde evidens est quod Dominus, [3]Qui est ipsa Lux, videat omnia et singula, quae in {4} cogitatione et voluntate hominis, immo quae in universa natura, et quod nihil prorsus Ipsum lateat; ex his tunc constare potest quomodo cum hoc se habet, quod nempe e naturali luce in qua vera illa, non credatur quod e spirituali luce omnia appareant, quae significantur per quod `illi non sciverunt quod audiens Joseph'. Quod `agnoverit Joseph fratres suos et illi non agnoverint illum' supra vers. 8 simile involvit; per illa enim significatur quod vera illa Ecclesiae, caelesti spiritualis ex luce ejus apparerent, et quod verum a Divino non appareret in luce naturali nondum a luce caelesti illuminata, de quibus videatur n. 5427, 5428. @1 ei$ @2 in$ @3 haec$ @4 i natura et quae in$