9419.“摩西和他的帮手约书亚起来”表圣言和它的代表。这从“摩西”和“他的帮手约书亚”的代表清楚可知：“摩西”是指主与局限于脱离内在意义的圣言外在意义的百姓之间的媒介，因而也指圣言，正如刚才所示（9414节）；“他的帮手约书亚”是指它的代表。“约书亚”在此表示这种代表的原因是，代表进行服务和辅助，好叫圣言和敬拜的外在事物能通过媒介，也就是摩西而呈现给主。但这些事物具有这样的性质：除了那些知道圣言的外在意义或字义的代表如何在天堂实现的人外，它们几乎是不可理解的。也就是说，对那些既熟悉圣言的外在意义，同时也熟悉内在意义的人，即那些既熟悉圣言的外在意义，同时也熟悉教会的真正教义的人来说，它以一种方式来表现；而对那些局限于脱离内在意义的外在意义的人来说，则以另一种方式来表现，这百姓就是这种情况。至于它以哪种方式在这百姓中间实现，可参看前文（4311节）。
由此可对“摩西”所代表的媒介和“约书亚”所代表的辅助代表形成某种概念。也就是说，有一种内在圣洁是发自主的神性真理所拥有的，因而是圣言和源于圣言的敬拜所拥有的。这种圣洁流入天堂，在那里被天使接受。还有一种圣洁既间接通过这种内在圣洁，也直接从主流入与一个正在阅读圣言，或进行源于圣言的敬拜之人同在的善灵。这种圣洁被称为外在圣洁；当它流入到一个人那里时，就会产生照着此人所知道的对应关系所形成的代表性形像。由此可见摩西现在所代表的媒介和约书亚所代表的辅助是怎么回事，即：外在圣洁充当媒介，而存在于秩序最低层的代表则充当辅助者。不过，要知道，神性真理的流注具有这样的性质：它对世人来说是一个不可理解的观念，除非主光照这种观念。因为人只会感觉圣言的圣洁和敬拜的圣洁从此人流向主。但这种秩序是颠倒的秩序，被称为“物质流注”。这种流注是一种表象，绝不是真实的，或说根本不是实际情况（参看前面引用章节的说明，9223，9227e节）。
Potts(1905-1910) 9419
9419. And Moses rose up, and Joshua his minister. That this signifies the Word and the representative, is evident from the representation of Moses, as being that which mediates between the Lord and the people who are in the external sense of the Word separate from the internal, thus also the Word, in accordance with what was shown just above (n. 9414); and from the representation of Joshua his minister, as being the representative. That Joshua here denotes the representative, is because the representative serves and ministers, in order that the external things of the Word and of worship may be presented to the Lord through the intermediate, which was Moses. But these things are of such a nature that they can with difficulty fall into ideas, except with those who know how the external or literal sense of the Word is presented representatively in heaven; namely, that it is presented in one manner with those who are in the external sense and at the same time in the internal, who are those in the external sense of the Word and at the same time in the true doctrine of the church; and in a different manner with those who are in the external sense separate from the internal, as was the case with this people. (In what manner it was effected with this people, see n. 4311.) [2] From this some idea can be formed of the intermediate which Moses represents, and the ministering representative which Joshua represents; namely, that the holy internal that belongs to the Divine truth proceeding from the Lord, thus to the Word and the consequent worship, flows into heaven and is there received by the angels; and also that mediately through this holy internal, and also immediately, there flows in from the Lord a holiness into the good spirits who are with the man who is reading the Word, or is engaged in the derivative worship. This holiness is called the holy external; and when this flows in with man it presents representatives according to the correspondences with him. From all this it can be seen how the case is with the Intermediation which Moses now represents, and with the Ministry which Joshua represents; namely, that the holy external is the intermediate; and that the representative, which is the ultimate of order, is the ministry. But be it known that such is the nature of the influx of Divine truth that it does not fall into a human idea unless this is enlightened by the Lord; for a man perceives no otherwise than that the holiness of the Word and of worship inflows from man to the Lord. But this order is inverted order, and is called "physical influx." (That this influx is apparent, and by no means real, see what has been shown in the passages cited above, n. 9223, 9227.)
Elliott(1983-1999) 9419
9419. 'And Moses rose up, and Joshua his minister' means the Word and its representative. This is clear from the representation of 'Moses' as the intermediary between the Lord and the people who are restricted to the outward sense of the Word, separated from the inward, thus also as the Word, as accords with what has already been shown just above in 9414; and from the representation of 'Joshua his minister' as its representative. The reason why 'Joshua' here means that representative is that what is representative serves and ministers, in order that the outward things of the Word and of worship may present themselves to the Lord through the intermediary, who was Moses. But these are matters such as are scarcely intelligible except to those who know about the ways in which a representation of the outward or literal sense of the Word is accomplished in heaven. That is to say, it is represented in one way with those who are acquainted with the outward sense of the Word and at the same time with the inward, that is, those who are acquainted with the outward sense of the Word and at the same time with true teachings of the Church, and in another way with those restricted to the outward sense, separated from the inward, as with this people. How it was accomplished with this people, see 4311.
[2] Some idea may be formed from this regarding the intermediary that 'Moses' represents and the ministering representative that 'Joshua' represents. That is to say, there is an inward holiness which Divine Truth emanating from the Lord possesses, thus which the Word and worship springing from it possess. This flows into heaven and is received there by angels. There is also an inflow of holiness indirectly through that inward holiness, as well as directly from the Lord, to good spirits present with a person engaged in reading the Word or in worship springing from it. This holiness is called an outward holiness, and when it flows in with a person it produces representative images formed in accord with the correspondences known to the person. All this helps one to see what use the intermediary serves, which Moses represents now, and what use the minister serves, which Joshua represents, namely that the outward holiness acts as intermediary, while the representative existing on the lowest level of order acts as minister. But it should be recognized that the idea of Divine Truth flowing in is unintelligible to a person unless the Lord sheds light on the idea. For the person sees what happens in no other way than this, that the holiness of the Word and the holiness of worship flows from the person to the Lord. But this order is inverted order, and is called physical influx, which is an appearance and not at all the reality; see what has been shown in the places referred to in 9223, 9227 (end).
Latin(1748-1756) 9419
9419. `Et surrexit Moscheh et Jehoschua minister ejus': quod significet Verbum et repraesentativum, constat ex repraesentatione `Moschis' quod sit medians inter Dominum et populum qui in sensu Verbi externo separato ab interno, ita quoque Verbum, secundum illa quae mox prius n. 9414 ostensa sunt, et ex repraesentatione `(x)Jehoschuae' ministri ejus' quod sit repraesentativum; quod (x)`Jehoschua' hic sit repraesentativum, est quia repraesentativum inservit {1}et ministrat, ut externa Verbi et cultus sistantur Domino per intermedium {2}, qui erat Moscheh; sed haec talia sunt quae aegre possunt cadere in ideas nisi apud illos qui sciunt quomodo Verbi sensus externus seu litteralis sistitur repraesentative in caelo, quod nempe aliter apud illos qui in sensu externo et simul interno sunt, (m)qui sunt qui in sensu Verbi externo et simul in vera doctrina Ecclesiae sunt,(n) et aliter apud illos qui in sensu externo separato ab interno, ut apud hunc populum; quomodo apud hunc populum factum sit, videatur n. 4311; inde aliqua idea formari potest de intermedio quod 2 `Moscheh' {3}repraesentat, et de repraesentativo ministrante quod `Jehoschua,' quod nempe sanctum internum, quod est Divini Veri procedentis a Domino, ita Verbi et inde cultus, influat in caelum et ibi ab angelis recipiatur; tum quod mediate per illud sanctum, ut et immediate influat a Domino sanctum ad bonos spiritus qui apud hominem, qui in lectione Verbi aut in cultu inde est; hoc sanctum vocatur sanctum externum, et cum influit apud hominem sistit repraesentativa secundum correspondentias apud hominem illum; ex his videri potest quomodo se habet cum intermediatione quam `Moscheh' nunc repraesentat, et cum ministerio quod `Jehoschua,' quod nempe sanctum externum sit intermedium, et repraesentativum quod est ultimum ordinis sit ministerium. At sciendum quod talis sit influxus Divini Veri [ut] non cadat in ideam humanam nisi illustratam Domino; homo enim non aliter appercipit quam quod sanctum Verbi et sanctum cultus influat ab homine ad Dominum; sed is ordo est ordo inversus, et vocatur influxus physicus, qui quod sit apparens et nullatenus realis, videantur quae in locis citatis, n. 9223, 9227 fin., ostensa sunt. @1 seu$ @2 i seu mediantem$ @3 repraesentabat$