170、刚才与我交谈的灵人来自其星球的北部。后来，我被带到来自西部的灵人那里。他们也想调查我是谁，是哪种人，并直截了当地说，我里面除了邪恶外什么也没有。他们以为这样就会阻止我靠近。我意识到，这是他们与所有到他们这里来的人搭讪的一种方式；但我蒙恩回答说，我十分清楚这一事实，他们里面同样除了邪恶外什么也没有，因为每个人都生在恶中。因此，凡出于世人、灵人和天使，如出于他自己或他的自我之物无非是邪恶，每个人里面的一切良善皆来自主。他们由此意识到，我掌握真理；于是，我被允许与他们交谈。然后，他们向我演示了他们对人里面的邪恶和主里面的良善的概念，它们如何被彼此分开。他们将一个放在另一个旁边，以致它们几乎相接，但仍保持各自的特性。然而，它们仿佛以一种我无法描述的方式被捆在一起，好叫良善引导邪恶，约束它，不叫它随心所欲地行动；良善就这样将邪恶朝它所渴望的方向弯过去，而邪恶对此毫不知情。他们以这种方式来表现良善对邪恶的控制，同时表现自由的状态。
后来，他们问主如何在来自我们地球的天使面前显现。我说，祂在太阳里面作为一个人显现，被太阳的火围绕，这太阳的火就是天堂天使所享有的一切光明的源头。它所发出的热是神性良善，所发出的光是神性真理；这二者都来自神性之爱，也就是所看到围绕那太阳里面的主的火之表象。然而，这太阳只有天堂的天使才能看见，天堂之下的灵人看不见，因为比起天堂天使，这些灵人距离对爱之良善和信之真理的接受太过遥远（参看40节）。对他们关于主和祂在来自我们地球的天使面前显现的问题的回答被恩赐给他们，是因为这时，主乐意在他们面前显现祂自己，并恢复被他们所抱怨的恶灵所扰乱的次序。这也是为何我被带到那里的原因，好叫我见证这些事。
170. The particular spirits I was talking to at the time were from the northern part of their planet. I was then taken to some others, who were from the western part. They too wanted to find out who I was and what I was like. They abruptly stated that in me there was nothing but evil; they thought that this would make me afraid to come any closer. I perceived, though, that this was the first thing they said to everyone who came to them. It was given me to reply that I knew perfectly well that this was true and that by the same token there was nothing but evil in them, because everyone is born into evil. 1Everything that comes from any people, spirits, or angels as a derivation of their own selves is nothing but evil because everything good that is in anyone comes from the Lord. They could tell from this that I was devoted to truth and gave me permission to talk with them.
They then showed me their mental image of the evil in people and the goodness from the Lord in them and how the two are kept separate from each other. They set them side by side, almost touching but still distinguished, yet seemingly connected in some indescribable way so that the goodness was leading the evil and reining it in to prevent it from acting impulsively. The goodness was thus leading the evil wherever it wished without the evil noticing this. This is how they presented the control that goodness has over evil while at the same time portraying a state of freedom.
[2] Then they asked me what the Lord looked like to the angels from our planet. I said that he appeared to them as a human being in the sun, enveloped there in the solar fire from which angels in the heavens get all their light. The heat that radiates from that sun is divine goodness, while the light from it is divine truth, and both come from the divine love that is the fire they see around the Lord in that sun. That sun is visible only to angels in heaven, though, not to spirits who are on a lower level, because spirits are less receptive to doing what is good out of love and to believing what is true than are the angels who are in the heavens (see 40 above).
They were inspired to ask about the Lord and how he appeared to the angels from our planet because it pleased the Lord at that time to make himself present to them and to restore order to the things that evil spirits had thrown into disarray there, the spirits they had been complaining about. In fact, the reason I had been brought there was to see this very thing.
Footnotes:
1. On the concept that we are “born into evil,” see note 1 in New Jerusalem 79. [Editors]
170. These spirits with whom I had just conversed were from the northern part of their world. Then I was taken to others who were from the western part. They too wanted to investigate who I was and what sort of person, and said straight off that there was nothing but evil in me. They thought this would deter me from going any closer. I realised that they started by saying this to all comers; but I was able to reply that I was well aware of that fact, and that likewise there was nothing but evil in them, since everyone acquires evil by birth. So whatever comes from a person, spirit or angel as from his own or the self is nothing but evil, all good in anyone being from the Lord. From this they realised that I was in possession of the truth and they allowed me to talk with them.
Then they demonstrated to me their concept of evil in a person and of good in the Lord, showing how they are kept apart. They set one next to the other, so that they were almost touching, but still retaining their identity. But they were as if tied together in a way I cannot describe, so that good guided evil and restrained it from acting as it pleased; and good thus bent evil in the direction it wished, without evil being aware of it. This is how they represented the control of good over evil and at the same time a state of freedom.
[2] Then they asked how the Lord appears in the presence of angels from our world. I said that He appears in the sun as a man, surrounded by the fire of the sun, which is the source of all the light the angels in the heavens enjoy. The heat which is radiated from it is Divine good, and the light from it is Divine truth; both of these come from Divine love, which is the fiery appearance to be seen surrounding the Lord in that sun. But that sun is only seen by angels in heaven, not by spirits below heaven, since these are further distanced from the reception of the good of love and the truth of faith than the angels in the heavens (see 40 above). The answer to their questions about the Lord and His appearance in the presence of angels from this world was granted to them, because it then pleased the Lord to manifest Himself before them, and to restore to order what had been upset by evil spirits there, about whom they had complained. The reason why I was taken there was to witness this.
170. The spirits with whom I now discoursed were from the northern part of their earth. I was afterwards led to others who were on the western part. These also, wishing to discover who and what I was, immediately said that there was nothing in me but evil, thinking thus to deter me from approaching nearer. It was perceived that this was their manner of accosting all who came to them; but it was granted me to reply that I well knew it to be so, and that with them also there was nothing but evil, by reason that every one is born in evil, and therefore whatever comes from man, spirit, and angel, as from what is his own, or his proprium, is nothing but evil, inasmuch as all good with every one is from the Lord. Hence they perceived that I was in the truth, and I was admitted to speak with them. They then showed me their idea concerning evil with man, and concerning good from the Lord, how they are separated from each other. They placed one near the other, almost contiguous, but still distinct, yet as it were bound together in a manner inexpressible, so that the good led the evil, and restrained it, insomuch that it was not allowed it to act at pleasure; and thus the good bent the evil in whatever direction desired, without the evil knowing it. In this manner they exhibited the dominion of good over evil, and at the same time a state of freedom. They then asked how the Lord appeared with the angels from our earth. I said that He appears in the sun as Man, encompassed therein with solar fire, whence the angels in the heavens have all light; and that the heat which proceeds thence is the Divine good, and that the light which proceeds thence is the Divine truth, each from the Divine love, which is the fire appearing around the Lord in that sun. That sun, however, appears only to the angels in heaven, and not to the spirits who are beneath, since they are more removed from the reception of the good of love and of the truth of faith, than the angels who are in the heavens (see above, n. 40). It was granted them thus to inquire concerning the Lord, and concerning His appearance before the angels from our earth, because it then pleased the Lord to present Himself before them, and to reduce into order the things which had been disturbed by the evil spirits of whom they complained. This also was the reason why I was led thither, that I might see these things.
170. Hi Spiritus, cum quibus nunc loquutus sum, erant a parte septentrionali suae Telluris: dein perductus sum ad alios, qui erant a parte occidentali; hi quoque volentes explorare quinam essem et qualis, statim dicebant, quod apud me nihil nisi quam malum esset; cogitabant quod sic deterrerer a proprius accedendo; apperceptum, quod ita ad omnes, qui adveniunt, primum dicant: sed respondere dabatur, quod sciam bene quod ita sit, et quod apud illos similiter nihil nisi quam malum sit, ex causa quia omnis nascitur in malum, et ideo quicquid ab homine, spiritu, et angelo ut a suo seu proprio venit, non est nisi quam malum, quoniam omne bonum, quod apud unumquemvis, est a Domino: inde appercipiebant, quod in veritate essem, et admittebar ad loquendum cum illis: tunc ostendebant mihi suam ideam de malo apud hominem, et de bono a Domino, quomodo ab invicem separantur; ponebant unum juxta alterum, poene ut contigua, sed usque distincta, at quasi vincta ineffabili modo, ita ut bonum duceret malum et fraenaret illud, ut non liceret ei agere ex lubitu, et quod bonum sic flecteret malum, quo vellet, praeterquam quod malum id resciret: ita sistebant dominium boni super malum, et simul statum liberum. Deinde interrogabant, quomodo Dominus apparet apud Angelos e nostra Tellure; dicebam quod appareat in Sole ut Homo, circumdatus ibi Igneo solari, ex quo est omnis Lux angelis in Coelis, et quod Calor qui procedit inde sit divinum Bonum, et quod Lux quae inde sit divinum Verum, utrumque ex divino Amore, qui est Igneum apparens circum Dominum in illo Sole: sed quod Sol ille modo Angelis in Coelo appareat, et non spiritibus qui infra sunt, quoniam hi remotiores sunt a receptione boni amoris et veri fidei, quam angeli qui in coelis (vide supra 40). Quod quaesiverint de Domino, et de Ipsius apparentia coram Angelis a nostra Tellure, dabatur illis, quoniam tunc placuit Domino se praesentem sistere apud illos, ac in ordinem redigere illa quae ex spiritibus malis ibi deturbata sunt, de quibus conquesti sunt; ut haec viderem, causa etiam erat quod illuc perductus sim.