ISB20.有人曾问我是如何从一个哲学家变成一个神学家的；我回答说：“是按着渔夫被主变成门徒和使徒的方式；我从青年时代初期起，就是一个属灵的渔夫了。”听到这话，询问者就问什么是属灵的渔夫？我回答说：“在圣言的灵义中，渔夫表示一个探查并教导属世真理，后来又以理性的方式探查并教导属灵真理的人。”
他又问：“如何证明这一点？”我说，从圣言中的这些经文来证明：
水必从海中绝尽，河也消没干涸。渔夫必哀号，凡向海中抛钩的必悲伤。(以赛亚书19:5, 8)
另一处：
必有渔夫从隐基底站在河水治愈的河边；他们都在那里撒网；他们的鱼各从其类，好像大海的鱼甚多。(以西结书47:9–10)
又一处：
耶和华说，看哪，我必打发许多渔夫，把以色列人打上来。(耶利米书16:16)
由此明显可知为何主拣选渔夫作门徒，并说：
来，跟从我！我要使你们作得人的渔夫。(马太福音4:18–19; 马可福音1:16–17)
彼得捕了许多鱼后，主对他说：
从今以后，你要得人了。(路加福音5:9–10)
然后，我又从启示录证明了渔夫这一含义的来源；即：“水”表示属世真理(50, 932节)；“河”也是(409, 932节)；“鱼”表示那些处于属世真理的人(405节)；因此，“渔夫”表示那些探查并教导真理的人。
听到这话，向我发问的人提高嗓门说：“现在我明白为何主呼召并拣选渔夫作祂的门徒了；因此，我不奇怪祂也拣选了你，因为如你所说，你从青年时代初期起就是一个属灵意义上的渔夫了，也就是说，是一个属世真理的探查者；现在你是一个属灵真理的探查者，因为这些真理建立在前者的基础上。” 他因是一个理性的人，对此又补充说：“唯独主知道谁适合接受并教导那些属于祂新教会的事物，无论是大主教当中的某一位，还是他们的仆人当中的某一位。此外，有哪个基督教神学家在就任神学家之前，不先在学校学习哲学？他还有什么其它源头获得聪明吗？”
最后他说：“既然你成为一名神学家，就请解释一下你的神学是什么？”我回答说：“它有两个原则：有一位神；有一个仁与信的结合。”对此，他回应说：“谁会否认这些原则呢？”我回答道：“当从内在检查时，会发现当今神学就否认这两个原则。”
一听到这些，询问者就问，什么是属灵的渔夫？我回答说，“渔夫”在圣经中属灵的精意是指这样的人：他探索并教导属世真理（natural truth），然后，以理性的方式探索并教导属灵真理（spiritual truth）。
【2】那是如何证明这个问题的？我说，从圣经中的这些段落来看：
海中的水必绝尽，河也消没干涸。渔夫必悲哀，凡向海中抛钩的必悲伤（赛19：5，8）。
这河水所到之处，凡滋生的动物都必生活，并且因这流来的水必有极多的鱼，海水也变甜了。这河水所到之处，百物都必生活。必有渔夫站在河边，从隐基底直到隐以革莲，都作晒网之处。那鱼各从其类，好像大海的鱼甚多。（以西结书47：9-10）。
耶和华说，我必打发许多渔夫，把以色列人打上来（耶利米书16：16）。
可见，耶和华为何拣选渔夫作门徒，并说：
来跟从我！我要叫你们得人如得鱼一样（马太福音4：18-19；马可福意1：16-17）。
彼得捕了许多鱼：从今以后，要得人了（路加福音5：9-10）。
【3】然后，我从 《启示录》中证明了渔夫这一意义的由来，即“水”象征自然真理（50，932节）；“一条河”（409，932节）表示同样的意思；“鱼”象征在属世真理（405节）中的人，而“渔夫”则象征探索和教导真理的人。
【4】听到这里，问我的人提高嗓音说，我现在明白为什么主选召渔夫作祂的门徒了。我不奇怪祂选召了你，因为正如你所说，你从少年时起就是一名灵性意义上的渔夫，是探索属世真理的人，你现在是一名属灵真理的探索者，因为属灵真理建立在属世真理的基础之上。
因他是理性之人，又补充说，只有主知道谁适合接受并教导属于祂的新教会的东西，无论是主教中的某一位，还是他们仆人中的某一位。此外，哪个基督教神学家在他成为神学家之前，不先在大学学习哲学？不然，他还有什么其他来源获得才智呢？
【5】最后他说，既然你成为一名神学家，就请解释一下你的神学是什么。我回答说，两个原则：上帝是独一的；仁爱和信仰相结合。对此，他回答说，谁否认这些原则呢？我答道，内在地审视就会发现，当今的神学否认这两个原则。（全文完）
20. I was once asked how, from a philosopher, I became a theologian; and I answered, "In the same manner that fishermen were made disciples and apostles by the Lord: and that I also had from early youth been a spiritual fisherman." On this, my questioner asked, "What is a spiritual fisherman?" I replied, "A fisherman, in the Word, in its spiritual sense, signifies a man who investigates and teaches natural truths, and afterwards spiritual truths, in a rational manner."
[2] On his inquiring, "How is this demonstrated?" I said, "From these passages of the Word: 'Then the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up. Therefore the fishers shall mourn, and all they that cast a hook into the sea shall be sad' (8). In another place it is said: 'On the river, the waters whereof were healed, stood fishers from Engedi; they were present at the spreading forth of nets; their fish was according to its kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many' (Jeremiah 16:16). Hence it is evident why the Lord chose fishermen for His disciples, and said 'Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men' (Mark 1:16-17): and why He said to Peter, after he had caught the multitude of fishes, 'Henceforth thou shalt catch men' (Luke 5:9-10)."
[3] I afterwards demonstrated the origin of this signification of fishermen from The Apocalypse Revealed: namely, that since water signifies natural truths (50, 932), as does also a river (409, 932), a fish signifies those who are in natural truths (405); and thence that fishermen signify those who investigate and teach truths.
[4] On hearing this, my questioner raised his voice and said, "Now I can understand why the Lord called and chose fishermen to be His disciples; and therefore I do not wonder that He has also chosen you, since, as you have observed, you were from early youth a fisherman in a spiritual sense, that is, an investigator of natural truths: and the reason that you are now become an investigator of spiritual truths is because these are founded on the former." To this he added, being a man of reason, that "the Lord alone knows who is the proper person to apprehend and teach those things which belong to His New Church; whether one of the Primates, or one of their domestic servants." "Besides," he continued, "what Christian theologian does not study philosophy in the schools, before he graduates as a theologian? From what other source has he intelligence?"
[5] At length he said, "Since you are become a theologian, explain what is your theology?" I answered, "These are its two principles, there is one God, and there is a conjunction of charity and faith." To which he replied, "Who denies these principles?" I rejoined, "The theology of the present day, when interiorly examined."
20. I was once asked how, from a philosopher, I became a theologian; and I answered, "In the same manner that fishermen were made disciples and apostles by the Lord: and that I also had from early youth been a spiritual fisherman." On this, my questioner asked, "What is a spiritual fisherman?" I replied, "A fisherman, in the Word, in its spiritual sense, signifies a man who investigates and teaches natural truths, and afterwards spiritual truths, in a rational manner."
[2] On his inquiring, "How is this demonstrated?" I said, "From these passages of the Word: 'Then the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up. Therefore the fishers shall mourn, and all they that cast a hook into the sea shall be sad' (8). In another place it is said: 'On the river, the waters whereof were healed, stood fishers from Engedi; they were present at the spreading forth of nets; their fish was according to its kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many' (Jeremiah 16:16). Hence it is evident why the Lord chose fishermen for His disciples, and said, 'Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men' (Mark 1:16-17): and why He said to Peter, after he had caught the multitude of fishes, 'Henceforth thou shalt catch men' (Luke 5:9-10)."
[3] I afterwards demonstrated the origin of this signification of fishermen from THE APOCALYPSE REVEALED: namely, that since water signifies natural truths (50, 932), as does also a river (409, 932), a fish signifies those who are in natural truths (405); and thence that fishermen signify those who investigate and teach truths.
[4] On hearing this, my questioner raised his voice and said, "Now I can understand why the Lord called and chose fishermen to be His disciples; and therefore I do not wonder that He has also chosen you, since, as you have observed, you were from early youth a fisherman in a spiritual sense, that is, an investigator of natural truths: and the reason that you are now become an investigator of spiritual truths is because these are founded on the former." To this he added, being a man of reason, that "the Lord alone knows who is the proper person to apprehend and teach those things which belong to His New Church; whether one of the Primates, or one of their domestic servants." "Besides," he continued, "what Christian theologian does not study philosophy in the schools, before he graduates as a theologian? From what other source has he intelligence?"
[5] At length he said, "Since you are become a theologian, explain what is your theology?" I answered, "These are its two principles, THERE IS ONE GOD, and THERE IS A CONJUNCTION OF CHARITY AND FAITH." To which he replied, "Who denies these principles?" I rejoined, "The theology of the present day, when interiorly examined."
20. I was once asked how from a philosopher I became a theologian; and I answered, In the same manner that fishermen were made disciples and apostles by the Lord; and that I also from early youth had been a spiritual fisherman. On hearing this the inquirer asked, What is a spiritual fisherman? I replied that a fisherman in the spiritual sense of the Word, signifies a man who investigates and teaches natural truths, and afterwards spiritual truths rationally.
[2] To the question, How is this demonstrated? I said, From these passages in the Word:
Then the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be dried up and become dry, therefore the fishers shall mourn, and all that cast a hook into the sea shall be sad (8).
In another place:
Upon the river whose waters were healed, the fishers stood from Engedi; they were there in the spreading forth of nets; according, to its kind was their fish, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many (Jeremiah 16:16).
Thence it is evident, why the Lord chose fishermen for disciples, and said:
Come ye after Me, and I will make you fishers of men (Mark 1:16-17).
And to Peter after he had caught a multitude of fishes: From henceforth thou shalt catch men (Luke 5:9-10).
[3] Afterwards I demonstrated the origin of this signification of fishermen from The Apocalypse Revealed; namely, because "water" signifies natural truths (50, 932); likewise "a river" (409, 932); "fish," those who are in natural truths (405); and thence "fishermen" signify those who investigate and teach truths.
[4] On hearing this my interrogator raised his voice and said, Now I can understand why the Lord called and chose fishermen to be His disciples, and therefore I do not wonder that He has also called and chosen you, since, as you have said, you were from early youth a fisherman in a spiritual sense, that is, an investigator of natural truths; that you are now an investigator of spiritual truths, is because these are founded on the former. To this he added, because he was a man of reason, that the Lord alone knows who is adapted to receive and to teach those things which are of His New Church, whether someone among the primates, or someone among their servants. Moreover, what theologian among Christians does not first study philosophy at college, before he is inaugurated as a theologian; and from what other source has he intelligence?
[5] At last he said, Since you are become a theologian, explain what is your theology. I replied, These are the two principles of it, That God is one, and that there is a conjunction of charity and faith. To which he replied, Who denies these? I answered, The theology of the present day, when interiorly examined.
THE END
20. Quondam interrogatus sum, quomodo a Philosopho factus sum Theologus, et respondi, eo modo quo Piscatores facti sunt Discipuli et Apostoli a Domino; et quod ego etiam a prima juventute fuerim Piscator spiritualis; hoc audito, interrogavit quid Piscator spiritualis, replicui, quod Piscator in Verbo in sensu ejus spirituali significet hominem, qui indagat et docet Veritates naturales, et postea spirituales rationaliter: ad interrogationem quomodo hoc demonstratur, dixi ex his locis in Verbo, "Tunc deficient aquae e mari, ac fluvius exsiccabitur et exarescet, ideo lugebunt Piscatores, et tristes erunt omnes projicientes hamum in mare," Esaiam 19:5, 8. Alibi; "Super fluvio, cujus aquae sanabantur, stabant Piscatores ab Engedi, expansione sagenarum aderant, juxta speciem erat Piscis eorum, sicut Piscis maris magni, multus valde," Ezechiel 47:9-10. Et alibi "Ecce Ego mittam, dictum Jehovae, ad Piscatores multos, qui Filios Israelis Piscabuntur," Jeremiam 16:16. Inde patet, cur Dominus Piscatores elegerat in Discipulos, et dixerat, "Venite post Me, et faciam vos Piscatores Hominum," Matthaeum 4:18-19. Marcus 1:16-17; et ad Petrum, postquam multitudinem piscium captaverat, "Ex nunc homines capies," Lucam 5:9-10. Postea demonstravi originem illius significationis Piscatorum ex Apocalypsi Revelata; videlicet, quia Aqua significat Vera naturalia, 50, 932; similiter Fluvius, 409, 932; Piscis illos qui in Veris naturalibus sunt, 405; et Inde Piscatores illos, qui Veritates indagant et docent. His auditis Interrogator extulit vocem et dixit, nunc possum intelligere, cur Dominus vocaverat et elegerat Piscatores ut essent Discipuli, et ideo non miror, quod etiam temet, quoniam, ut dixisti, a prima juventute fuisti Piscator in spirituali sensu, hoc est, Indagator veritatum naturalium; quod nunc Veritatum spiritualium, est quia hae super illis fundantur. His addidit, quia erat Vir rationis, quod solus Dominus cognoscat, quis idoneus est ad percipiendum et ad docendum illa, quae Novae Ipsius Ecclesiae sunt, num aliquis inter Primates, vel num aliquis inter famulos illorum. Praeterea, quis Theologus inter Christianos non prius in Gymnasiis studuit Philosophiae, antequam inauguratus est Theologus; unde ei alioquin intelligentia Demum dixit, quia factus es Theologus, aperi quae tua Theologia, respondi, quod haec duo sint Principia ejus, Quod Deus unus sit, et quod Conjunctio charitatis et fidei sit, ad quae retulit, quis haec negat, respondi, quod Theologia hodierna interius lustrata.