3470. About the spirit - it has the property of extension
I spoke with some who had believed during their bodily life that the spirit has no extension, and who from that principle had deeply rooted fantasies, so as to allow nothing, not a single word, that involved extension. When I found one who had this fantasy enrooted, I asked him what he now feels about the soul or spirit whether it had extension or not, reminding him that he sees, hears, has [the sense of] smell, appetite, and touch, so that he thinks certainly that he is in the body, and this by actually touching it. He also has the desires with which he was endowed as a human being in the body, and (now) also the same thinking.
[2] He admitted that he had been of the opinion in life, that the soul or spirit must not have the property of extension, consequently that he had not been able to allow anything at all, not even a word, that savored of extension. He was then held a little while in the idea he had had when he thought that way in the world. Then he said that the spirit is thought - but I replied as if he were still living in the world, asking whether there could be sight without an organ of sight, or an eye: vision in itself has no extension, but the eye or organ of sight does have extension, then also objects of sight have extension, but vision apart from an organ and objects does not. The same applies to thought, which is inner sight.
I therefore asked whether he could conceive of thought, or that inner sight, apart from organs or an organic substance, just as one cannot conceive of sight apart from an organ of sight - adding that to thought regarded in itself apart from an organic substance, extension cannot be ascribed, any more than it can to vision.
But [being asked] whether there can be inner sight or thought apart from an organ from which or by means of which, he then acknowledged that in his life in the world he had struggled with that fantasy of imagining the spirit to be only thought, but not organic, but he says that he now clearly realizes that the spirit is organic.
3470. CONCERNING SPIRIT, THAT IT IS EXTENDED.
I conversed with those who, in the life of the body, believed that spirit was not extended, and who, moreover, from such a principle, had irradicated phantasies to that degree that they would not admit even the use of a term implying the idea of extension. Upon being aware of the fact, I inquired of one who was deeply rooted in this persuasion, what he now thought respecting the soul or spirit, whether it was extended or not, reminding him that he saw, heard, smelt, touched, and had appetite, just as if he was actually in the body; that as to touch, for instance, he enjoyed it most perfectly; besides the various cupidities of which man is possessed in his corporeal life, and (:now:) that he was even in similar thought. He confessed that during life he had been of the opinion that the soul or spirit was not extended, and consequently that he would admit nothing, not even the use of a word, which would involve such a belief. He was then held a while in the idea in which he was when he thought thus in the world, and he then said that spirit was thought. But I answered him as if he were still living in the world, by inquiring whether sight could exist without an organ of sight or an eye. Sight in itself is not extended, but the eye or organ of sight is extended, as are also the objects of sight, but not sight abstracted from organ and object. So also with thought, which is internal sight. I asked him whether he could conceive of thought or internal sight apart from organs or organic substances, just as sight could not be conceived of without an organ of sight, adding that thought viewed in itself and without an organic substance, was like vision, of which extension could not be predicted; and if internal sight or thought were practicable without an organ, I demanded from what source or by what means. He then acknowledged that he had, during the life of the body, indulged the phantasy of supposing that spirit was only thought, but not organic; he now however manifestly perceived that it was organic.
3470. De spiritu, quod sit extensum
Loquutus cum iis, qui in vita corporis crediderunt, quod spiritus non sit extensus, et qui alte, ex tali principio, phantasias irradicarunt, ut nihil admittere, ne quidem ullam vocem, quae involveret extensum; hoc cum nossem, quod tali cogitatione irradicata fuerit, quaesivi eum, quid nunc sentiat de anima seu spiritu, num sit extensum, vel non, revocando in animum, quod videat, audiat, olfactum habeat, appetitum, tum tactum, sic ut prorsus putet se in corpore, et tactu manifesto, praeter cupiditates, quibus ut homo in corpore praeditus, et (nunc) quod etiam simili cogitatione: is fassus quod ita in vita opinatus, quod anima seu spiritus non foret extensum, proinde quod nihil usquam admittere potuisset, ne ullam vocem, quae involveret extensum, tenebatur parumper in idea, in qua fuit, cum ita cogitavit in mundo, tunc dixit, quod spiritus sit cogitatio sed ei respondebam, sicut in mundo cum vixit, an visus possit existere absque organo visus seu oculo, visus in se non est extensus, sed oculus seu organum visus est extensum, tum etiam objecta visus sunt extensa, sed non visus abstracte ab organo et objectis: similiter cogitatio, quae est visus internus; quaerebam itaque an possit concipere cogitationem seu visum istum internum, absque organicis seu substantia organica, sicut non concipi potest visus absque organo visus; adjiciendo quod cogitatio in se spectata absque substantia organica, sicut visus, de ea non praedicari potest extensio, sed an dabilis sit visus internus seu cogitatio absque organo, a quo, aut per quod; tunc agnoscens [erat] quod in vita corporis phantasia ista laboraverit, quod putaverit spiritum esse modo cogitationem, non autem organicum, sed nunc ma-