3852. About earthly things
There are spirits who do not like earthly things at all, as I was able to observe when I was writing something about earthly things, namely, that they were despised, as being of no value, because they desire only spiritual things. I spoke with them at length, saying that those things are of service in supporting spiritual things, especially for those, both spirits and people on earth, who are so engrossed in bodily things that apart from them they understand nothing, because their levels of thought are earthly and physical. Added to this is the fact that order terminates in material things, and when certain spirits are lacking them, they seem to themselves not to have anything to stand on, and seem to themselves to lose their feet; besides other facts that they also acknowledged. For they were listening to reason, even though, as it seemed to me, they had usually clung to their own opinions. Continuing I said that while it is true that bodily things and the like are in themselves of no avail, yet because people on earth and spirits are moved by them more than by other things not only as confirmations, but also because they move them more [in themselves], with their countless diversities that are appropriately applied to serving a use. Therefore it cannot be otherwise than that such confirmatory things exist. I also told them that when girls and women see that Pleasure gardens exist in the other life, they are more drawn toward higher knowledge of faith than otherwise, pointing out that such gardens and things of the kind introduce them, as if through gates.
3852. CONCERNING NATURAL THINGS.
There are spirits who care nothing for natural things, which I was enabled to observe when I wrote anything respecting natural things, as these were despised as being of no value, inasmuch as they regard only spiritual things. I spoke with them at length, [saying] that they served for the confirmation of spiritual things, especially with those who are in corporeals, both men and spirits, and that they perceive nothing abstracted from them, because natural and corporeal things are the planes of their thought, and also that order is terminated in material things, which when some spirits miss, they seem to themselves to have nothing on which to rest, so that they appear to lose their feet, besides other things, which they also acknowledged; for they admitted [my] reasons, although otherwise they seemed to me to adhere to their own reasons, saying it was true that corporeal and the like things did not weigh of themselves, but such was the quality of men and spirits that they were not affected by them only [or in themselves considered], but by confirmations more than by anything else; and because these have more effect with them, and because the diversities are innumerable to which they ought to apply themselves in order to the production of use, therefore it could not be otherwise than that such things should be confirmatory. To this it was added that females both old and young, when they perceive that paradisaical things are given [exist], are more allured to the knowledges of faith than in any other way, and that moreover they are introduced [into these knowledges] through such and similar things as through a portico.
3852. De naturalibus
Sunt spiritus, qui nihil amant naturalia, quod observare potui cum de naturalibus aliquid scriberem, quod vilipensa essent, sic ut nullius pretii, quia spiritualia solum volunt; cum quibus plura loquutus, quod inserviant confirmandis spiritualibus, cumprimis apud tales qui in corporeis sunt, tam homines quam spiritus, et quod abstracte ab iis nihil percipiant, quia eorum cogitationis plana sunt naturalia et corporea, tum quod ordo terminetur in materialibus, quae cum spiritus quidam amittunt, non habere sibi videntur aliquid cui insistunt, sic ut perdere sibi videantur suos pedes, praeter alia, quae quoque agnoverunt, nam admittebant rationes, tametsi alioquin inhaesisse mihi visi suis rationibus, [ego] dicendo quod hoc verum sit quod corporea et similia non valeant in se, sed quia tales sunt homines et spiritus, ut iis non solum, ut confirmationibus afficiantur magis quam aliis, tum quod ea afficiant eos magis, et quod diversitates sint innumerabiles, quibus [ea] applicari oportet, ut usus praestetur, ideo non potest aliter fieri, quam ut talia sint confirmantia; dicens quoque, quando [eae] percipiunt quod in altera vita dentur Paradisiaca, quod puellae et faeminae magis alliciantur ad cognitiones fidei, quam [allicerentur] alioquin, praeter quod talia et similia [eas] introducant sicut per porticus.