4380. About the Hells, about fantasies
I saw, and was instructed, how the hells are arranged in general. It is fantasies that prevail there and appear to them as if they were entirely actual, for they are enveloped in fantasies, and have no other life than one of fantasies. If they did not have that they would have no life, so the fantasies to them are like real life, perceived with every sense, as I have been taught many times by experience, and discussed many times with spirits. They said they knew they were fantasies, but they received the reply that while that is so, yet they do perceive in fantasies with every sense, and even with pain and torment, so even though they are fantasies, yet apart from them they cannot live without their being wholly fantasies, because they lack the goodness and truth of faith. Good spirits and angels never feel those things, because they have the truth.
4380. CONCERNING THE HELLS; CONCERNING PHANTASIES.
I have seen and been instructed as to the state of the hells in general. Phantasies are what rule there, and they appear real to the life, because those who are there are in phantasies, and have no other life than that of phantasies; if they had not that, they would have none at all, wherefore their phantasies are to them as living realities, perceived with all fullness of sense, as I have learned by multiplied experience, and from having often times conversed with spirits on the subject. They said they knew they were phantasies, to which it was replied that such was the fact, but still they perceived them with perfect sensation, and even with pain and torture; and although they themselves are mere phantasies, yet they cannot otherwise live, as the sum total of their existence is phantasy, inasmuch as they are not in goodness and the truth of faith; for good spirits and angels never perceive such things, inasmuch as they are in truth.
4380. De Infernis, de phantasiis
Vidi et instructus sum quomodo inferna in genere se habent; sunt phantasiae quae regnant, et iis sicut vivae prorsus apparent, nam in phantasiis sunt, nec aliam vitam quam phantasiarum habent, si non illam haberent nullam, quare phantasiae iis sicut vivae sunt, cum omni sensu, quod multoties ab experientia edoctus, et multoties cum spiritibus loquutus, dicebant ii quod scirent quod phantasiae essent, sed responsum eis, quod ita sit, sed usque omni sensu percipiant phantasiis, cum dolore, et cruciatu, quae tametsi phantasiae sunt, usque non aliter possint vivere, quin toti quanti phantasiae sunt, quia non in bonitate et veritate fidei; boni spiritus et angeli nusquam talia sentiunt, quia in veritate sunt.