4726. I was in the state of spirits
Two or three times I have been let into the state in which spirits are to such an extent that I was a spirit with spirits, thus without an earthly body. And then I was with spirits and spoke with them, and I saw them and looked into how much their life differed from the life of a person [on earth]. They were alike in face, alike in body and alike even in clothing and speech. I spoke with them about this, that I was a person in the world and at the same time a spirit among spirits, and that when they lived in the world they had not known that there would be such a life after death. They listened and responded, joining in conversation. Some of them had forgotten that they had been people [on earth], but they were reminded of this, because those who are there for a long time eventually forget life in the world. Those who died as little children don't know this happened, but they were shown [that it did].
[2] I saw their dwellings there; the cities, the streets, and I went around with them and looked at everything. And then I was sad that they also had spoken with me. How ignorant the people of the Church are, that they do not know this, and if they hear that this is how things are, they do not believe. They do not believe:
1) because at heart they do not believe in the life after death;
2) because they believe that their life is the life of their body, and that there is no inner person through whom they live; and
3) because they cannot believe that their soul after death is like a person, still less that it is a person as to face and the whole body.
4726. THAT I WAS IN THE STATE OF SPIRITS.
Twice or thrice I was let into the state in which spirits are, so that I was a spirit with spirits, thus without an earthly body: and I have then been with spirits and spoken with them, have seen them, and have examined how much their life differs from the life of man. They had a similar face, similar body, even similar clothing and similar speech. I spoke with them concerning this matter, and stated that I was a man in the world and at the same time a spirit among spirits, and that they were ignorant, when they lived in the world, that there would be such a life after death. They heard, they answered, they joined in conversation; some of them have forgotten that they have been men, but still have been led to the recollection of it - for they who are there for any great time, at length forget the life in the world. They who have died in infancy do not know about it, but they are shown. I saw their habitations there, the cities and streets; I have gone about with them, I have surveyed everything, and then I have grieved that they even spoke with me. How ignorant the man of the Church is because he does not know this; and if he hears that it is so, he does not believe, for the reason, first, because he does not in heart believe in a life after death; second, because he believes that his life is the life of the body, and that there is not an interior man, by which he lives; third, furthermore, because he cannot believe that his soul after death is like a man, still less that it is a man, as to the face and the whole body.
4726. Quod fuerim in statu spirituum
Bis aut ter missus sum in statum in quo sunt spiritus, adeo ut essem spiritus cum spiritibus, sic absque corpore terrestri, et tunc fui cum spiritibus, et loquutus cum illis, vidi illos, examinavi quantum vita illorum differret a vita hominis, simili facie, simili corpore, etiam simili vestitu erant, et simili loquela, loquutus sum cum illis de ea re, et quod essem homo in mundo, et simul spiritus inter spiritus, quod illi nesciverint cum vixerunt in mundo, quod talis vita foret post mortem; audiverunt, responderunt, sociabant sermonem, quidam illorum obliti sunt quod fuerint homines, sed usque in recordationem acti sunt, nam qui ibi sunt per multum tempus, illi tandem obliviscuntur vitae in mundo; infantes mortui hoc non sciunt, sed evincuntur; vidi ibi habitacula illorum, urbes, plateas, cum illis circumivi, lustravi omnia, et tunc indolui, quod etiam mecum loquuti, quam ignarus sit homo Ecclesiae, quod hoc non sciat, et si audiat quod ita sit, nec credat, ex causa
1) quia non credit corde vitam post mortem;
2) quia credit quod vita ejus sit vita corporis, et quod non interior homo sit per quem vivit;
3) tum quia non potest credere, quod anima ejus post mortem sit similis homini, minus quod sit homo quoad faciem et totum corpus.