5519. ABOUT THE HEAVENLY KINGDOM: WHAT THEY ARE LIKE THERE
There was a certain one with those who were from the Lord's heavenly Kingdom. He was a preacher; he was from the spiritual kingdom. The reason he came there was because I was speaking with him about those who are in that kingdom. When he came there he saw them sitting at a table, and on the table there were various kinds of food. When he saw them, he saw how they passed the food to one another and changed plates, and various other things that he thought were formalities and toasts. He was asked whether he understood what those things meant. He said he did not. Others who were with me, who were from the same Kingdom, did not see them acting in this way, but [said] those things were appearances corresponding to their thoughts. What it symbolized was explained by these, which was done with the aid of spiritual mental images. And they said that not a thousandth part could be expressed by spiritual mental images, and that even by these few, nothing fully. They said also that they did actually speak among themselves but through a speech of thought that comes in by an inward route and then becomes audible in a certain way. The mental images of those who are from the spiritual kingdom cannot be expressed otherwise than by saying that they are variegations of light; but the mental images of those who are from the heavenly kingdom are as it were the flames from which the light comes, so they are inexpressible in words of natural language. The heavenly can well understand the spiritual, but not the reverse, because the heavenly are of an inward nature, and outward things can be seen and perceived from what is inward, but not the reverse.
5519. ABOUT THE CELESTIAL KINGDOM: WHAT SORT ARE THERE.
There was a certain one along with those who were of the Lord's celestial kingdom. He was a preacher. He belonged to the spiritual kingdom. The reason that he came thither, was because I spoke with him about those who were in that kingdom. When he came thither, he saw them sitting at a table; and, upon the tables, were foods of various sorts. When he saw them, he noticed how they passed the foods one to another, changed the plates, and various other things, which he supposed to be actings and drunken gesticulations. He was asked whether he understood what those things meant. He said that he did not. Others, who were along with me, who belonged to the same kingdom, did not see them acting, thus, but [saw] that those things were appearances corresponding with their thoughts. It was explained by the latter what it signified - which was done by means of spiritual ideas; and they said that they could not express the thousandth part by spiritual ideas, and even through those few [movements], nothing in fullness. They also said that they did indeed speak together, but by a cogitative speech that entered through an internal way, and thus became audible in a particular manner. The ideas of those who belong to the spiritual kingdom cannot be otherwise expressed than that they are variegations of light; but the ideas of those belonging to the celestial kingdom, that they are variegations as it were of the flame from which the light is; consequently, inexpressible in words of natural speech. The celestials understand the spiritual readily, but not vice versa; because celestial things are interior, and, from the interior, exterior things can be seen and perceived, but not the other way about.
5519. DE REGNO COELESTI QUALES IBI SUNT
Fuit quidam apud illos qui e Regno coelesti Domini erant, erat praedicator, is ex regno spirituali, causa quod illuc veniret, erat quia loquebar cum illo de illis qui in regno illo, cum illuc venit, videbat illos sedere ad mensam, et super mensa varii generis cibi, ille cum vidit illos, vidit quomodo ponerent cibos unum ad alterum, et patinas mutarent, et varia, quae putabat esse gestus et potus gesticulationes; dicebatur ad illum, num intelligeret quid vellent illa, dixit quod non: alii qui apud me, qui ex eodem Regno, non videbant illos ita agere, sed quod illa essent apparentiae correspondentes cogitationibus illorum; explicabatur ab his, quid significaret, quod factum per ideas spirituales, et dicebant quod ne millesimam partem possent exprimere per ideas spirituales, et quod usque per pauca illa nihil ad plenum; dicebant etiam quod quidem loquantur inter se, sed per loquelam cogitativam quae intrat per viam internam, et sic fit certo modo audibilis; ideae illorum qui e regno spirituali non aliter exprimi possunt quam quod sint variegationes lucis, at ideae illorum qui e regno coelesti, quod sint variegationes quasi flammae ex qua lux, ita inexpressibiles vocibus loquelae naturalis. Coelestes intelligunt spirituales bene, sed non vicissim, quia coelestes sunt interiores, et ab interiori videri et percipi exteriora possunt, sed non vicissim.