5913. I spoke with him about persuasion and about persuasive belief, saying that it suffocates the understanding of others, and that it also is found with those who are evil who have convinced themselves of falsities, for instance, those who are against the Divine and in favor of nature (which was said about the persuasion of those like these and about Nephilim), and I said that persuasion is not found with those who have a genuine affection for truth, but in its place is found the light of understanding together with its reasons and proofs which are then presented with them. It is otherwise with those who have a persuasion, for if their reasoning and proofs come to view, they vanish, for they are all opposed to heaven. Luther said that he is not permitted to become absorbed in his persuasion, and as often as he comes to doing so, he is tormented and so ceases, and that when he catches his persuasion stealing in, he flees into his room where it is dispelled, but that still he is permitted to prove his [persuasions] with false deductions. It was said that the reason for this is so that those who come from the world
5913. At length, when [his] persuasive [ardor] cooled down, I spoke to him about persuasion and persuasive faith, saying that it chokes the understanding of others, and that it also exists with evil men who have confirmed themselves in falsities; as, for example, who have confirmed themselves against the Divine in favor of nature. [Something] was said respecting the persuasion of such [ones], and respecting Nephilim; also, that persuasion does not exist with those who are in a genuine affection of truth, but that, in place of it, there is intellectual light, along with its reasons and confirmations, which are then simultaneously presented. It is different with those who are in persuasion; for, if their reasonings and confirmations were to go forth they would perish, for they are all opposed to heaven. Luther said that it is not allowed him to be in his persuasive, and that as often as he comes into it he is tormented, and therefore he desists; also, that when he apprehends that his persuasive may insinuate itself, he flees into a chamber where it is dispersed, but that still it is allowed him to confirm his own [doctrine] by reasonings. It was said that the reason this is so, is in order that those who come from the world, and are in a similar doctrine, may come to those who are in the like, and this according to the order of heaven.
5913. suasivum loquutus sum cum illo de persuasivo, et de fide persuasiva, quod suffocet intellectum aliorum, et quod detur etiam apud malos qui confirmaverunt se in falsis, ut qui contra Divinum pro natura, dictum de persuasione talium, et de Nephilim, tum quod non detur persuasivum apud illos qui in genuina affectione veri sunt, sed quod loco ejus lux intellectualis cum suis rationibus et confirmantibus una, quae simul tunc sistuntur, aliter ac apud illos qui in persuasivo sunt, nam si illorum ratiocinia et confirmantia prodirent, perirent, nam sunt omnia contra coelum; Lutherus dixit, quod non liceat ei in suo persuasivo esse, et quoties in id venit, quod crucietur, et quod ideo desistat, et cum apprehendat persuasivum subirrepere, quod aufugiat in cameram ubi id dissipatur, sed quod usque liceat confirmare sua per ratiocinia, dictum est, quod id sit ob illam causam, ut illi qui e mundo veniunt,