1937. This proposition was debated among spirits, some of whose reasonings and replies I heard and understood. Many I did not hear, which, in my judgment, were so refined that people on earth would be amazed that such perfect arguments could be exchanged. But I noticed that some, after the disagreement were so much in the dark that they did not know what was true - something that is likely to happen with truths that are argued about for a long time, which are darkened, so that the debaters are afterwards blind to the very truth. I was in the company of some of these.
Coming to the point, it would be just as easy for the Lord, by omnipotence and by miracles, to lead one person as to lead another, but since it pleases the Lord to lead people according to order, it is therefore easier to lead one who is in order than one who is not in order. The latter must first be led back to the path, into order, and this takes place over a period of time, so as not to break the person.
There are many more confirmatory particulars, which, if brought to bear, would come into debate and then into obscurity and ambiguity. This the Lord has seen it fitting to teach me by quite a lot of experience within myself.
About the spirits who are with people on earth
1937. There was a debate on this subject among the spirits, some of whose reasonings and responses I heard and received, though many I did not hear. They were, in my judgment, so subtle that men would wonder how a controversy could be carried on by such exquisitely framed arguments. But I observed that the minds of some, after the discussion, were so obscured that they knew not what was true, as often happens in regard to truths which are long disputed about - they become obscure, so that the disputants at length stumble in [the light of] the very truth itself. With some of these I was present. As far as relates to the effecting of the thing through the agency of omnipotence and miracles, it were as easy to the Lord to lead one as another; but when it pleases the Lord to lead one according to order, then it is easier for Him to lead one who is in order than one who is not, for such an one is first to be brought back into the [right] way, or into order, which is necessarily a work of time, that the spirit may not be broken, whereto I might add many confirming considerations, which, if they were adduced, would come into discussion, and thus into obscurity and ambiguity. This the Lord has seen fit to teach me by an abundant personal experience.
1937. De hac propositione inter spiritus disputatum est, quorum rationnm et responsionum aliquas audivi et percepi, plures non audivi, erant meo judicio, ita subtiles, ut homines mirarentur, quod possit controverti {a} argumentis tam concinnis; sed observabam, quod aliqui post dissessionem {b} obscurati sint, ut nesciverint quid verum, sicut solet fieri veritatibus, de quibus cum diu disputatur, obscurescunt, ut postea in ipsa veritate coecutiant: intereram quibusdam; quod ad rem attinet per omnipotentiam et miracula, tam facile est Domino unum ducere ac alterum, verum dum placuit Domino secundum ordinem ducere, tunc facilius est eum ducere, qui in ordine est, quam qui non in ordine, reducendus est prius in viam seu in ordinem, quod fit per temporis moram, ne frangatur, praeter adhuc plura confirmantia, quae si adducerentur, in ventilationem venirent, sic in obscuritatem et ambiguitatem; ab experientia in me, satis multa, id Dominus docere dignatus est.
b