2781. About the upside down order of learning spiritual and heavenly truths
There are spirits from among those in bodily life who deny the existence of spirits, consequently of the spiritual truths of the Lord, so they refuse the faith for the reason that they are unable to see or understand anything relating to faith from material, physical, and bodily principles. Such people in the other life have the same negative idea. Since they suppose that they are earthly humans and thus do not know they are spirits, and even if they do, stick in that idea, I was prompted to tell them that this is quite impossible, and to demonstrate this to them I was given to say that it is like the case of one who wants to know what will is from the muscles that bring the will forth in actions. The natural sciences are likewise ineffective in regard to everything relating to faith.
2781. CONCERNING THE INVERSE ORDER OF BECOMING ACQUAINTED WITH SPIRITUAL AND CELESTIAL TRUTHS.
There are spirits of those, who in the life of the body deny the existence of spirits, consequently [the existence] of spiritual truths of the Lord, therefore deny faith, because they cannot, from material, physical and corporeal [things], see or perceive the things that belong to faith. Such in the other life are in a similar idea of negation. [These] ideas inhere when they suppose themselves to be men, and thus while not aware that they are spirits, and [even if] they do know. It was granted me to tell them that this can by no means become demonstrated to them. It was given to say, that it is just as if anyone wishes to know what the will is, from the muscles, which bring forth the will in life. The natural sciences are similar, in respect to the things which belong to faith.
2781. De ordine inverso cognoscendi veritates spirituales et coelestes
Sunt spiritus ex iis qui in vita corporis negant existentiam spirituum, proinde spiritualium veritatum Domini, ita abnegant fidem, ex causa quod non possint ex materialibus, physicis et corporeis videre seu percipere ea quae sunt fidei: tales in altera vita in simili negationis idea sunt; quum homines se putant esse, et sic dum non sciunt quod spiritus, et tametsi sciunt, inhaerent ideae, iis dicere mihi datum, quod hoc nequaquam fieri possit, quod ad demonstrandum iis, dicere datum, quod res se habeat, sicut qui scire velit quid voluntas, ex musculis, qui voluntatem in actis producunt, similes sunt scientiae naturales, respective ad ea quae sunt fidei.