281.关于我与亚伯拉罕、雅各、使徒和许多古人的谈话。一连好几个星期，我与使徒、亚伯拉罕，雅各，摩西，亚伦，亚伯拉罕的妻子撒拉，利亚，拉结交谈。当时，我没有别的想法，只是以为我一直在与他们交谈；后来，因着经历的指教，我能推断出，他们是扮演居于内层天堂的这些人的灵人，甚至相信他们一定是那些人。因为更内层天堂的天使能通过内层天堂的灵人与世人对话，所以这一切是间接实现的。不过，这些人扮演他们，同时能说明这些天使在肉体死后第一个阶段是何品质。当他们在更内层天堂向一个人显现时，情况就不同了，这种事是通过一种高尚的代表实现的。（1747年11月31日）
我今天想到这些事，但这些灵人的情况是否如前所述，我尚不能确定。
281. About my conversation with Abraham, Jacob, the Apostles, and many more of the ancient time
For many weeks I was in conversation with the Apostles, with Abraham, with Jacob, Moses, Aaron, Sarah the wife of Abraham, Leah, Rachel. At the time, I could believe no differently than that I had been speaking with them; but afterwards, being taught by experience, I was able to deduce that they were spirits who impersonated them in the inward heaven, and even believed they must be the same people.
For the angels in the very inward heaven can speak with people on earth through spirits of the inward heaven - thus this is done indirectly - but these spirits impersonate them, and are able in so doing to show what those [angels] had been like in the first period after the death of the body. It is different when they appear to a person in the very inward heaven, 1[thus directly,] which is done by a lofty portrayal. 1747, the 1st day of December. 2
These things came today into my thought, but whether this is the way these matters really stand, I am unable to find out as yet for certain.
Footnotes:
1. See 262, footnote 3.
2. The manuscript has "die 31 Nov."
281. CONCERNING MY CONVERSATION WITH ABRAHAM, JACOB, THE APOSTLES AND MANY OTHERS OF ANCIENT TIME
For many weeks I have been in conversation with the Apostles, with Abraham, with Jacob, Moses, Aaron, Sarah, the wife of Abraham, Leah and Rachel, at which time I could believe no otherwise than that I had been conversing with those persons: but afterwards, having been taught by experience, I could deduce that they were those who assumed the place of these persons in the interior heaven and also believed that they were those same persons. For the angels of the more interior heaven are able to speak with men by means of spirits of the interior heaven, thus this is effected mediately. But these spirits assume the place of those persons, and thus at the same time can show of what quality they had been at first after the death of the body. It is otherwise when the same spirits appear to man in the more interior heaven, which is effected by a sublime representation. 1747, Nov. 31. 1
These things came into my thought today, but whether the case with these spirits is as stated, I cannot as yet know for certain. 2
Footnotes:
1. Perhaps a slip for Dec. 1.
2. This subject is also presented in WE 5593.
281. De sermone meo cum Abrahamo, Jacobo, Apostolis et pluribus antiqui temporis
Per plures septimanas in sermone fui cum Apostolis,cum Abrahamo, cum Jacobo, Mose, Aharone, Sarah uxore Abrahami, Lea, Rachele; tunc non aliud credere potui, quam quod cum iis colloquutus fuerim, sed postea ab experientia edoctus, potui deducere, quod essent ii, qui vicem eorum sustinerent in interiori coelo, et crediderunt etiam se eosdem fore, nam angeli in intimiori coelo per spiritus interioris coeli loqui possunt cum hominibus ita 1
fit hoc mediate sed 2
spiritus isti sustinent vicem eorum, et simul sic ostendere possunt, quales fuerint tempore primo post mortem corporis; aliter dum iidem homini apparent in coelo intimiori, quod fit per repraesentationem sublimem. 1747, die 31, 3
Nov. Haec in cogitationem meam hodie venerunt, num autem res se ita cum iis habeat, nondum pro certo scire possum.
Footnotes:
1. The Manuscript has hominibus, ita
2. The Manuscript has mediate, sed
3. sic manuscript