2877. A conversation with spirits about inward things, which do not appear to them, being everything
The same deceitful spirits [were present] while I was writing about the symbolic Church to the effect that there were only superficial things through which holy inner qualities were symbolized. One said that he could not understand them, although he was able to understand. But by means of visual spiritual mental images and displays I was enabled to reply to him that what we see are only the hulls or outermost coverings, while it is the inward things that are everything of them.
I was allowed to display a tree to him, whose leaves are all that appear, then an apple, which we see only on the outside, when yet within it there are fibers similar to trees if unfolded, there are saps, purer and purer, there are the hulls of seeds, there are the seeds which inwardly store its purest [essences], and these we do not see. Such is his thought-only some outer little skins. 1748, 21 Aug.
2877. A DISCOURSE WITH SPIRITS THAT INTERIORS WHICH DO NOT APPEAR TO THEM, ARE EVERYTHING.
Certain deceitful spirits when it was written concerning the representative Church, that there were only externals whereby holy internal things were represented; he said that he could not understand these things, although he was able to understand; but it was given to reply to him by ideas and spiritual and visual representations, that what we see, are only envelopes and outermost coverings, when there are interiors which are the all thereof. It was granted to represent to him a tree whose leaves only appear, then an apple, of which we see only the outside, when yet within it are fibers like trees, if they are unfolded: there are juices purer and purer, there are envelopes of seeds, there are seeds which inwardly store up the purest [principles] thereof: these we do not see. Such is his thought, only a certain external cuticle skin. - 1748, August 21.
2877. Sermo cum spiritibus, quod interiora quae iis non apparent, omnia sint
Spiritus iidem dolosi [aderant] 1
, cum de Ecclesia repraesentativa scriberetur, quod externa modo essent, per quae repraesentarentur sancta interna, [quidam] dicebat, quod intelligere ea non posset, tametsi intelligere posset, sed per ideas et repraesentationes spirituales et visuales ei respondere datum, quod modo thecae et extima tegumenta sint, quae videmus, cum interiora sint, quae omnia eorum sint, sistere ei dabatur arborem, cujus modo folia apparent, tum pomum, quam modo externis 2
videmus, cum tamen intus in ea sint fibrae arborum similes, si explicantur, sint succi, puriores 3
et puriores, sint thecae seminum, sint semina quae intus recondunt purissima ejus, haec non videmus; talis est ejus cogitatio, modo externa quaedam cuticula. 1748, 21 Aug.
Footnotes:
1. vide autem indicem ad Dii, Judaei, et Repraesentatio ubi singularis
2. aliquantulum imperfectum in the Manuscript; in J.F.I. Tafel's edition externe substituit
3. imperfectum in the Manuscript; in J.F.I. Tafel's edition purior