3489. They confessed their acknowledgment of the one only Lord, from which I was able to assume that they were from the planet Jupiter, also that what was their own was nothing but filth. About these [two points] and perhaps about a third, I spoke with them, but I cannot yet remember the third point - on account of which I recognized that they had true faith. Then they told me that I was unclean, for they first announced what I had been like, which they had been able to sense at once from the aura; so I told them that just as they had confessed (this was the third point just mentioned as forgotten), all goodness is the Lord's and with them there is nothing but evil - thus, that their goodness was the Lord's and they, as far as what is their own, were devils, and hellish; and that the Lord has drawn us out of hell, and saved us.
For they spoke with me, asking me why I spoke with devils, to which I replied that it was by permission that I spoke even with the worst devils, who with only one puff could kill a person as to everything spiritual. And I said that such become devils who had been people on earth, and some of them whom I have known in bodily life having high positions, about whom I did not suppose at that time that they were devils or would become devils - thus, that they also could become better. For it would be unreasonable to think that the Lord permits anyone to be punished in hell, let alone to eternity, on account of a life of short duration, perhaps being of the opinion that his or her own principles were true, and was therefore convinced. So it should not be thought that the Lord permits anyone to be punished, let alone continuously to eternity, except for the sake of correction. For whatever is from the Lord is good, and is nothing but purpose, thus for the sake of a good end. Eternal punishment would never have a purpose. This was the reason why I answered them so harshly, and why I called them, with regard to what is their own, infernal devils.
3489. They confessed that they acknowledged the only Lord, which led me to conclude that they were from the earth Jupiter, as also that the proprium with them was only polluted. Concerning these things, and also perhaps a third topic, I conversed with them, but the third I do not recollect, though I inferred that they were in the true faith. They then said that I was impure, for they declared of what character I had formerly been, which they perceived immediately from my sphere; wherefore I said to them that it was as they had confessed (:which was the third topic just mentioned as forgotten:) viz. that all good is of the Lord, and that in themselves there was nothing but evil, therefore all their good was from the Lord, and they themselves, considered in themselves, were devils and infernals; consequently the Lord alone had delivered and saved them from hell, as he had us. In farther conversing, they asked me why I spoke with devils? I replied that it was permitted me, and that too with the very worst of the devils, from whose inflatus alone man, as to all that is his own, is liable to be spiritually destroyed. I informed them also that the devils of this character were once men, and some of them, whom I had known in the life of the body, were men of eminence, and of whom I had never supposed any such thing as that they were devils, or would become devils, but that they would rather become better; 1for it would be unreasonable to suppose that the Lord would permit anyone to be punished in hell, much less to eternity, for [the sins of] a short life, especially as each one considered his principles to be true, and was thus fixed in his persuasion. It is not to be thought therefore that the Lord would suffer anyone to be punished, much less without intermission forever, except with a view to reformation, as whatever is from the Lord is good, and for a good end, but eternal punishment could have no [such] end. This was the reason that I answered them so harshly, and called them, as to their proprium, infernals and devils.
Footnotes:
1. Dr. Tafel's note on this passage implies that Swedenborg's meaning here is, not that be supposed such persons would be regenerated, but that they would be subdued, and thus ameliorated. As to the paragraph that follows, respecting, the eternity of punishment, it is probably to be considered as expressing Swedenborg's opinion during the life-time of the persons spoken of, and before he became the subject of that full enlightenment which he afterwards received; for he is elsewhere extremely clear and emphatic on this subject. Thus, AC 10,749, "The life of man cannot be changed after death; it remains then such as it had been, nor can the life of hell be inscribed into the life of heaven, since they are opposite. Hence it is evident that they who come into hell remain there to eternity. " -Tr.
3489. 1
Confitebantur quod unicum Dominum agnoscant, inde quod ex Jovis tellure essent, autumare potui, tum quod apud eos, quod proprium, nihil esset nisi spurcum: de his, et forte de aliquo tertio loquutus cum iis, sed nondum tertii memini, inde cognoscens quod essent in vera fide: tum mihi dicebant quod essem immundus, nam recitabant prius qualis eram, hoc poterant illico percipere, ex sphaera, quare iis dicebam, quod sicut ii fassi (quod tertium oblitum modo erat) quod omne bonum est Domini, et quod apud eos nihil nisi malum, ita quod bonum eorum esset Domini, et quod ii, quoad eorum, essent diaboli, et quod infernales, et sic quod Dominus nos ab inferno extraxerit, et salvaverit; loquuti enim sunt, interrogantes me cur cum diabolis loquerer, quibus responsum quod mihi permissum, etiam cum pessimis diabolis, ex quorum solo afflatu potuisset homo quoad omnia sua spiritualia necari, et quod tales essent diaboli, qui homines fuerunt, et quidam eorum, quos novi in vita corporis, in dignitate fuisse, nec [ego] tunc aliquid tale, quod essent diaboli, et fierent diaboli, arbitratus, sic quod ii quoque meliores fieri possent; nam absonum foret putare, quod Dominus permittat, ut aliquis in inferno puniatur, minus in aeternum ob vitam pauci temporis, forte quod opinatus sua principia esse vera, et sic persuasus; quare non cogitandum quod Dominus permittat aliquem puniri, minus continue et in aeternum, nisi emendationis fine, nam quicquid a Domino est bonum, et nihil nisi finis, sic propter nem bonum, aeterna punitio nullum haberet finem. Haec causa fuit, quod ita dure eis responderim, et quod vocaverim eos, quoad propria eorum, infernales et diabolos.
Footnotes:
1. Sidebar: Quod is Maximo Homine constituerent illa quae provinciae mediae sunt inter cerebrum et cerebellum, ita quae cogitationis seu intellectus ad cerebrum, et quae affectionis seu voluntatis ad cerebellum, inde est quod intellectualia et voluntaria apud illos unum agant, et quod facies simul sit loquens, et oculus quasi simul cogitans.