3493. Disputation can lead even to denial of higher knowledge of faith
I spoke with spirits who assumed they had true faith, and who acknowledge by rote and from the memory that the Lord rules the universe, that all good is from Him, that all that is their own is nothing but evil, all of which they affirmed. But I spoke with them, saying that when matters that are quite clear by themselves, and are in light, come into dispute, the mind comes into obscurity or ignorance, and from ignorance or obscurity into doubt, and from doubt into denial, and so the person becomes an atheist.
But they replied that this could not happen, and this they also affirmed among themselves. Because they had higher knowledge of faith firmly established among them, they were able to dispute with others, in fact to be brought into obscurity, and I added from experience, into doubt - indeed, seem as if they were denying (because so strong is the aura of persuasion of some spirits that they can almost extinguish spiritual things, as I was told about those before the flood).
[2] But with those who have faith, in whom the Lord has rooted the higher knowledge of faith and firmly established it, even though they seem, due to the aura of conviction, to be driven, so to speak, into denial, still that denial is dispelled (this has been portrayed several times as removals), and driven away, then the doubting, then the darkness, and then they appear in light, that is, in higher knowledge. This shows that nothing can harm those who have faith, even if they are among devils, and in auras that seem [to have power] to kill. 1748, 6 Oct.
3493. THAT THE KNOWLEDGES OF FAITH MAY BE BROUGHT, BY DISPUTATIONS, EVEN TO THE POINT OF DENIAL.
I spoke with spirits who supposed themselves to be in true faith, and who acknowledged with the mouth and in a scientific way, that the Lord rules the universe; that all good is from Him; and that everyone's proprium is nothing but evil; all which they affirmed. But I remarked to them that those things which are luminously clear in themselves, when they fall under discussion, come into obscurity or ignorance, and from ignorance or obscurity into doubt, and from doubt into denial, and thus man becomes an atheist. But they replied that it could not be so; and this was asserted among them because they had confirmed in themselves the knowledges of faith, and were thus able [without danger] to dispute with others and even to induce obscurity. I added from experience, that they might doubt, and even seem to themselves to deny, because the sphere of certain persuasions is such that it is able to extinguish spiritual things, as was said to me respecting the antediluvians; but that those who are in faith, and in whom the Lord has deeply rooted and confirmed the knowledges of faith, although they seem to themselves, from the sphere of persuasions, to be driven to denial, yet that is dispelled (:which is sometimes represented by removals:) negation being first driven away, then doubt, then obscurity, till finally they are established in light; that is, in knowledges. Hence it appears that nothing can injure those who are in faith, although they should be in the midst of devils, and in such spheres as seemed to threaten destruction. - 1748, October 6.
3493. Quod cognitiones fidei per disputationem usque ad negationem perduci queant
Loquutus cum spiritibus, qui putabant se in vera fide esse, et qui agnoscebant oretenus et scientifice quod Dominus regat universum, quod omne bonum ab Ipso, quod omne proprium non sit nisi malum, quae affirmabant, sed cum iis loquutus, quod dum illa quae in se manifesta sunt, et sunt in luce, si in ventilationem veniant, quod mens in obscuritatem seu ignorantiam veniat, et ab ignorantia seu obscuritate in dubitationem, et a dubitatione in negationem, sic fit homo atheus; sed dicebant, quod ita fieri non possit; quod etiam affirmatum apud eos, quia cognitiones fidei apud se confirmatas habent, ii possunt cum aliis disputare, imo obscurari, addidi ab experientia, quod possint dubitare, imo videri sibi negare, quia talis est sphaera persuasionum quorundam, ut exstinguant quasi spiritualia, ut de antediluvianis mihi dictum, sed qui in fide sunt, et apud quos Dominus radicavit cognitiones fidei, et confirmavit, ii tametsi ex persuasionum sphaera videantur sibi quasi in negationem adigi, usque dispellitur (quod repraesentatum aliquoties per remotiones) et abigitur negatio, dein dubitatio, tum obscuritas, et sic sistuntur in luce, hoc est in cognitionibus: inde constat, quod qui in fide, iis nihil nocere potest, tametsi inter diabolos sunt, et in sphaeris talibus, quae necare videntur. 1748, 6 Oct.