1243. On the state of souls, thinking they are in the body
As previously mentioned here and there [207, 364-365, 400], souls think they are nowhere else than in the body, which they call being people on earth. So this is what they think, and unless they are given reflection, they are unable to realize that they are spirits.
On this subject I have just now spoken with two who had thought they were living in the world, for whatever they had in the body, they still keep. They have all their desires with which bodily life gifts them, as well as their appetites, such as the appetite for eating when they see food they had liked in the life of the body-as one of them affirmed just now when he saw me dining. And I told them that they also keep their senses, sight, hearing, smell, and touch, just as keen as in the body, and just like the bodily sense.
I went on to say that they are nonetheless spirits, as they may know upon reflection, and that now there is no need for them to care for their body as they did in the world. Food, clothing and shelter are the cares of people in the world only, and now I am telling them that just for food, clothing and shelter people want to possess the universe, when yet they could be content with very few possessions. And now, in their life as spirits, they have no need of these, so they can now devote themselves to heavenly matters. 1748, 8 March.
1243. CONCERNING THE STATE OF SOULS, THAT THEY SUPPOSE THAT THEY ARE IN THE BODY
As frequently said above, souls suppose no otherwise than that they are in the body, which they call being men; in this way they think that they are men and they cannot acknowledge that they are spirits, unless reflection is given. I have now spoken about this with two spirits who supposed that they were living in the world, for they retain whatever they had in the body, that is, they have with them all their cupidities which constitute their corporeal life, as well as their appetites - as the appetite of eating when they see the food which they had desired in the life of the body - as one of them now affirmed when he saw what I was eating. And I told them that they retained their other senses, as sight, hearing, smell and touch, as sensibly as in the body, and as if they were corporeal. I told them further that nonetheless they are spirits, as they can know from reflection, and that they now have no need to take care of their body as in the world. Food, clothing and habitation are the cares of men in the world only; and at this day for the sake of this food, clothing and habitation men desire to possess the universe, when they could be content with very few things. But now, in their life as spirits, they need have no care for these things, and therefore can now apply themselves to heavenly things. 1748, Mar. 8.
1243. De statu animarum, quod putent se in corpore esse
Ut passim prius [207, 364-365, 400], animae putant se non aliter ac in corpore esse, quod vocant homines, sic quod homines sint, nec nisi per reflexiones datas, agnoscere possunt, quod spiritus, de qua re etiam nunc cum binis loquutus sum, qui putarunt se vivere in mundo, quicquid enim in corpore, etiam retinent, nempe omnes suas cupiditates secum habent, quae eorum sunt 1
vita corporea, praeterea etiam appetitus, sicut appetitum edendi, cum vident cibum, quem cupierunt in vita corporis, sic nunc unus eorum affirmabat, cum videret quod comederem 2
, et dixi iis, quod sensus quoque retineant, sicut visum, auditum, olfactum, et tactum, ita sensibilem ut in corpore, et sicut corporeum; ulterius cum iis loquutus, quod nihilominus sint spiritus, quod scire possent per reflexiones, et quod nunc non opus habeant, curas habere corporis, sicut in mundo; in mundo solum sunt victus, vestitus, et domicilium, quae curae hominum sunt, et nunc, [dixi,] quod propter solum victum, vestitum, et domicilium cupiant [homines] universum possidere, cum [tamen] paucissimis contenti esse possent: et nunc in vita ut spiritus, nullo eorum opus habent, quare nunc vacare possunt coelestibus. 1748, 8 Martius.
Footnotes:
1. The Manuscript has est
2. The Manuscript has commederem