4857.“看哪，你的公公上亭拿剪羊毛去了”表犹太教会想为自己进行请教。这从“犹大”的代表，以及“上”和“剪羊毛”的含义清楚可知。“犹大”是指源于雅各，尤其经由犹大而来的民族当中的教会（参看4815，4842，4852节）；犹大在此之所以被称为“公公”，是因为与此处“儿媳”所表示的代表属灵和属天事物的教会有某种交流。“上”是指某种提升，如刚才所述（4853节）。“剪羊毛”是指为了教会进行请教，如前所述（4853节），就是“他玛”所表示的为它进行请教的状态（4855节）。
这种内义就包含在这些话里，但这层意义从字面上绝无法看出来，因为当阅读这些描述时，心智会想到犹大、他玛、剪羊毛，而不是脱离人物、地方和尘世功用的属灵事物。然而，天使因处于属灵事物，故只将这些话理解为上述那类属灵事物。因为当字义转为灵义时，诸如涉及人物、地方和尘世的那类事物就会消失；取而代之的是涉及教会及其状态，以及教会所发挥的功用的事物。
诚然，令人难以置信的是，这一切会是如此；但这一切之所以如此，是因为只要人活在世上，他的思维就会基于属世和世俗观念，而非基于属灵或属天观念。而且，那些沉浸于肉体和尘世事物的人甚至不知道任何属灵或属天事物的存在，更不知道这些事物与世俗或属世的事物不同，且彼此分离；而事实上，它们就像人的灵与其身体那样不同。他们也不知道灵义活在字义里面，如同人的灵活在他的身体里面；并且当字义消失时，灵义像人的灵那样继续存活。因此，内义可被称为圣言的灵魂。
Potts(1905-1910) 4857
4857. Behold thy father-in-law goeth up to Timnah to shear his flock. That this signifies that the Jewish Church wished to take counsel for itself, is evident from the representation of Judah, as being the church that was with the nation descended from Jacob, specifically with Judah (see n. 4815, 4842, 4852), who is here called "father-in-law" because there was something of communication with a church representative of spiritual and celestial things, which is here the "daughter-in-law;" and from the signification of "going up," as being some elevation, of which just above (n. 4853); and from the signification of "shearing the flock," as being to consult for the church, of which above (n. 4853)-the state of taking counsel for it being "Timnah" (n. 4855). [2] That this internal sense is contained in these words can by no means appear from the letter, for when they are read the mind thinks of Judah, Timnah, and the shearing of a flock, and not of spiritual things, which are separate from person, place, and worldly use. And yet angels, because they are in spiritual things, perceive nothing else by these words than such things as have been told; for when the literal sense passes into the spiritual, such things perish as relate to person, place, and the world; and those take their place that relate to the church, its state, and use therein. [3] It indeed appears incredible that it should be so, but this is because so long as man lives in the world he thinks from the natural and worldly things which are there, and not from spiritual and celestial things; and they who are immersed in bodily and earthly things do not know that there is anything spiritual and celestial, and still less that spiritual and celestial things are distinct from worldly and natural things, when yet they are distinct as the spirit of man is distinct from his body. Neither do they know that the spiritual sense lives in the literal sense as the spirit of man in his body, and also that the spiritual sense in like manner survives when the literal sense perishes; whence the internal sense may be called the soul of the Word.
Elliott(1983-1999) 4857
4857. 'Behold, your father-in-law is going up to Timnah to shear his flock' means that the Jewish Church had a wish to consult its own interests This is clear from the representation of 'Judah' as the Church among the nation descended from Jacob, specifically among that descended from Judah, dealt with in 4815, 4842, 4852 (here the expression 'father-in-law' is used because there was some kind of communication with the Church that was representative of the spiritual and celestial things meant here by 'daughter-in-law'); from the meaning of 'going up' as some kind of raising up, dealt with just above in 4853; and from the meaning of 'shearing a flock' as consulting the interests of the Church, dealt with above in 4853, the state when those interests were consulted being meant by 'Timnah', 4855.
[2] Such is the internal sense within these words, but this sense cannot in any way be seen from the letter, for when these descriptions are read the mind thinks of Judah, Timnah, and the shearing of a flock, not of spiritual entities separate from person, place. or worldly use. But living as they do amid spiritual things, angels do not perceive from these descriptions anything else than the spiritual realities that have been mentioned. For when the literal sense passes over into the spiritual sense the things descriptive of person, place, or the world fade and those descriptive of the Church, its state, and the uses served there take their place.
[3] It indeed seems to be unbelievable that all this can be so. But it is so because, as long as a person is living in the world, his thought is based on natural and worldly ideas, not on spiritual or celestial ones. Also, those who are immersed in bodily and earthly interests do not even know of the existence of anything spiritual or anything celestial, let alone that these are distinct and separate from what is worldly or natural, when in fact they are as distinct as a person's spirit is from his body. Nor do they know that the spiritual sense lives within the literal sense as a person's spirit does within his body, and that like a person's spirit the spiritual sense continues to live when the literal sense fades away. Therefore the internal sense may be called the soul of the Word.
Latin(1748-1756) 4857
4857. `Ecce socer tuus ascendit Timnatham ad tondendum gregem suum': quod significet quod Ecclesia Judaica sibi vellet consulere, constat ex repraesentatione `Jehudae {1}' quod sit {2}Ecclesia apud gentem ex Jacobo, in specie apud Jehudam, de qua n. 4815, 4842, 4852, qui hic `socer' dicitur quia aliquid communicationis erat cum Ecclesia repraesentativa spiritualium et caelestium quae hic `nurus'; ex significatione `ascendere' quod sit elevationis quid, de qua mox supra n. 4853 ; {3}ex significatione tondere gregem quod sit consulere Ecclesiae, de qua supra n. 4853; status consulendi illi est 2 Timnatha, n. 4855. Quod hic sensus internus sit in his verbis, nequaquam potest ex littera apparere, mens enim cum haec leguntur, cogitat de Jehudah, de Timnatha, de tonsione gregis, et non de spiritualibus quae sunt separata a persona, a loco, aque usu mundano; at usque angeli quia in spiritualibus sunt, non aliud per illa percipiunt quam quae dicta sunt; cum enim litteralis sensus transit in spiritualem, pereunt talia quae sunt personae, loci et mundi, et succedunt qua 3 sunt Ecclesiae, ejus status, et ibi usus: incredibile quidem apparet quod ita sit, sed hoc ex causa quia homo quamdiu in mundo vivit cogitat ex naturalibus et mundanis quae ibi sunt, et non ex spiritualibus et caelestibus; et qui immersi sunt corporeis et terrestribus, illi nec sciunt quod aliquid spirituale et caeleste sit, et minus quod haec distincta sint mundanis et naturalibus, cum tamen distincta sunt sicut hominis spiritus ab ejus corpore; et quod sensus spiritualis vivat in sensu litterali sicut hominis spiritus in ejus corpore, et quoque quod sensus spiritualis similiter supervivat pereunte sensu litterali; inde vocari potest sensus internus anima Verbi. @1 qui hic socer$ @2 religiosum$ @3 ex significatione Thimnatae quod sit status consulendi Ecclesiae, de qua etiam supra n.4855 qui status significatur per tondere gregem, n.4853;$