5600. About certain Christians among Mohammedans, about the one God, Aulaevil 1
There was a conversation about the Mohammedans to the effect that they acknowledge the Lord but only as the greatest prophet and that they do not acknowledge His Divinity because they were unable to understand how the Divine could exist divided into three persons thus in three Gods, and that therefore they acknowledged one God the creator of the universe, but the Lord as the greatest prophet. And the holy spirit they said was spirits and angels. This Christian [in the conversation] wanted to know whether their doctrine and opinion was in fact such. He came up to them from the western side, wanting to ask them about this matter. They told how they thought about it from their religion, but said to the Christian, "What do you believe about God; was God one?" He said that he believed there was one God. But they examined the mental images in his thinking, which is easily done in the other life, and said that he did not believe that there is one God but three, because in his thinking he pictured three persons and each one as God. They then said that with his mouth he says one God, but in his heart, faith, or thinking, he believes there are three, when nevertheless a Christian ought to speak just as he thinks and believes, and not otherwise. He, when this was said, could not deny it. They then added that it ought to be a shame to Christians to think three gods, and that the Gentiles themselves are wiser for their wise men think God is one and do not have many in their mental picture as Christians do. Therefore he left and said that he would never go back to them for he felt ashamed.
[2] He wanted to say that the three were one by virtue of being of one mind, but yet he presented a mental image of three gods who were of one mind, when nevertheless God is one. That there is a Divine Trinity, but the Trinity is in the Lord, see the heavenly doctrine concerning the Lord, 1and the appendix to the heavenly doctrine in the section about the Lord. 3The Mohammedans held him in the mental image in his thought, in a way that happens in the other life, from which he could not tear himself away, so could not deny, and he was then ashamed.
After this I presented a picture of the Trinity in one person, and this in the Lord, together with some things from the Word. And then they said that they perceived that in this way it could be so; and they would have believed unless they had felt otherwise in the world, although they see He is more than they had believed, due to the fact that he had bound Mohammed and also that He was called the Son of God, and that He was conceived from God himself.
Footnotes:
1. Perhaps this refers to Alderman Peter Aulaevill who lived in Sodermalm, the same part of Stockholm in which Swedenborg lived.
The New Jerusalem and its Heavenly Doctrine 289.
3. Ibid. 306.
5600. ABOUT A CERTAIN CHRISTIAN AMONG MOHAMMEDANS: ABOUT THE ONE GOD. AULAEVILL.
There was a report about the Mohammedans, that they acknowledge the Lord, but only as the Grand Prophet, and do not acknowledge His Divinity, for the reason that they have not been able to understand how the Divine could exist divided into three persons, consequently into three Gods, and that, therefore, they have acknowledged one God the Creator of the universe, but the Lord as the Grand Prophet; and have affirmed the Holy Spirit to be spirits and angels. That Christian wanted to know whether such was their doctrine and sentiment. He approached them at the western part, wishing to question them about that matter. They spoke as they thought from their religion; but they asked the Christian what he believes about God - whether he believes that He is One. He said that he believed that God was One; but they examined the ideas of his thought, which easily takes place in the other life. They said that he does not believe that God is one, but that He is three, because in his thought he sets up three persons; and everyone of them as God. They then said, further, that he says one God, but, in heart, in faith, or in thought, he believes in three; when, nevertheless, a Christian ought to speak as he thinks and believes and not differently. Since he was unable to deny this, they then went on to say that it ought to be to the shame of Christians to think three gods, and that the very heathen are wiser, for their wise ones think that there is one God, and do not have more in their idea, as the Christians do. Wherefore, he retired, and said that he would never return to them; for he was overwhelmed with shame. He wanted to say that the three were one through agreement; but, still, he set up the idea of three Gods who were unanimous, when, yet, God is one. That there is a Divine Trine, but a Trine in the Lord, see the Heavenly Doctrine, 1concerning the Lord, Nos. [288-291 and 297], 2and the appendix to the Heavenly Doctrine 1at the article concerning the Lord [HD 306]. 2The Mohammedans kept him in the idea of his thought, in a manner which occurs in the other life, and he was not able to tear himself away from it, thus, not to deny it; and, then, he was, of consequence, overwhelmed with shame. I presented, afterwards, the Trinity in one person, and this in the Lord, together with certain [declarations] from the Word; and then they said that they perceived the thing could be so, and would be able to believe it, if, in the world, they had not felt differently. Nevertheless, they see that He is more than they have believed, from the fact that He had bound Mohammed, and, also, that He is called the Son of God, and that He was conceived of God Himself.
Footnotes:
1. That is, The New Jerusalem and its Heavenly Doctrine. -ED.
2. The references we have applied within the brackets in the text; are to the chapter "On the Lord," in the work mentioned in the preceding note, viz.: The New Jerusalem and its Heavenly Doctrine - which, being published to the world in the year 1758, was, probably in preparation at the time this portion of Swedenborg's Diary [now called Spiritual Experiences] was written; that is, between "the 9th January, 1757" (See n. 5366, above), and "the 30th of March 1757" (See n. 5699 of the present work, in the succeeding volume). "[HD 306]" comes in, as Swedenborg here mentions, in an "appendix" to the above indicated chapter "On the Lord;" which appendix consists of references to passages in the Arcana Coelestia, where the various points summarily presented in the chapter itself maybe found discussed at large. The fact that Swedenborg, according to the Latin Editor left blanks, instead of filling in the nos. of the work to which he was referring seems to favor the inference that the references were to then unfinished work, - as, we have pointed out, the "Heavenly Doctrine" at that time was. -ED.
5600. De quodam Christiano apud Mahumedanos, de Deo uno
Aulaevil
Sermo erat de Mahumedanis quod agnoscant Dominum, sed modo ut prophetam maximum, et quod non Divinum Ipsius, ex causa quia non potuerunt capere, quomodo Divinum posset dari distinctum in tres personas, ita in tres Deos, et quod ideo agnoverint unum Deum creatorem universi, at Dominum ut prophetam maximum, et spiritum sanctum, dixerunt esse spiritus et angelos, Christianus ille volebat scire, num talis eorum doctrina et sententia, accessit ad illos a parte occidentali, volens interrogare de illa re, dicebant sicut cogitabant ex religione sua, at dicebant ad Christianum, quid is credat de Deo num unus, dicebat quod credat quod unus Deus esset, sed explorabant ideas cogitationis ejus, quod facile fit in altera vita, dicebant quod non credat quod unus Deus sit sed quod tres, quia in cogitatione sistit tres personas, et quemlibet ut Deum, tunc dicebant, quod ore dicat unum Deum, sed corde, fide, aut cogitatione credat tres, cum tamen oportet Christianum loqui sicut cogitat et credit, et non aliter, is cum id non negare posset, tunc addebant dicere, quod hoc Christianis pudori debeat esse cogitare tres deos, et quod ipsi gentiles sapientiores sint, nam sapientes illorum cogitant unum esse Deum, nec plures in idea sua habent, ut Christiani, quare recessit, et dixit, quod nusquam ad illos rediret, nam pudore affectus est. Voluit dicere quod tres unum essent per unanimitatem, sed usque sistebat ideam trium deorum, qui unanimes, cum tamen unus Deus est. Quod Divinum Trinum sit, sed Trinum in Domino, vide doctrinam coelestem de Domino, n.... 1
et appendicem ad doctrinam coelestem in articulo de Domino..... 2
Tenebant Mahumedani illum in idea cogitationis ejus, modo quo fit in altera vita, a qua se non potuit divellere, ita non negare, et tunc ideo pudore affectus est. Sistebam postea Trinum in una persona, et hoc in Domino, cum quibusdam ex Verbo, et tunc dicebant quod percipiant quod ita possit esse, et credere potuissent nisi in mundo senserant aliter, tametsi vident quod is major sit quam crediderunt, ex eo quod vinxert Mahumedem, et quoque quod Filius Dei dicatur, et quod ab Ipso Deo conceptus.
Footnotes:
1. NHDC 289-297
2. NHDC 306