4832. About an earth outside our solar system, one of the smaller, and about the Lord there
See concerning the Divine Human of the Lord 3 to 6 pages below (4844-4847)
For many hours, about 10, and without interruption, I was raised up from the place where I was and granted to observe the process of elevation and gradual removal from my prior location by steps, coming finally to the point where they were not seen. It happened in a state of wakefulness. During this time I spoke about this with spirits who were near me.
[2] A certain one from this earth accompanied me. When he was living, he was among the renowned preachers and had been a powerfully moving writer as well. From the idea of him that I had gotten from such things as I had heard and noticed about him, spirits mistakenly imagined that at heart also he was more a Christian than the rest. This is because in the world an opinion is formed from a person's preaching and writing and not from his life, and if it is formed from life, people excuse faults when they have such an idea, for the idea or impression of someone draws everything to its side.
[3] At length, after 10 hours, I was in an elevated position and realized that I was outside our solar system. And from the direction of the elevation, I realized I was in a world in the stars lying in a southerly direction.
[4] Then certain [spirits] from some earth there spoke with me. They said that occasionally some from elsewhere come to them, and the way they came was pointed out too. It was to the left, and I noticed that they were from our earth. Speaking of these they said that certain ones upset them by saying that they [from earth] believe in three persons and one God and also have a mental picture of three gods although with their mouth they say one, because when they describe the persons, using their thoughts, as happens in the other life, the three persons appear as [individual] persons. And then, as result of their being of one mind, they make them as it were one by something appearing as if it were continuous. They say that in this way the three are one and call the three so united one God, not however, one Divine. From these things they realize the kind of mental image of one God those have that are from our earth.
The one who was with me was a preacher. He too, when he had such a picture in his thought, likewise displayed three gods as [being] one, but when he did not have the mental image in his thought 1but was simply speaking as he had in the world, he then said God is invisible. And when he said this he was thinking only of the Father and not of the Lord, and then no other idea came from this than of an as-it-were invisible universe, and thus Nature as it is in its beginnings. And at that time he was also examined as to whether he had believed the same way, and it was ascertained that such had been his inner belief. Thus for him inwardly, God had been the inmost of Nature, but outwardly He had been simply names؇od the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It was ascertained also that inwardly in himself he had made nature God and yet, as regards the Holy Spirit, had the picture of an angel, and about this angel the picture of a visible God. The reason for this, as far as could be gathered, was that in the world he had often thought that he had spoken from the Holy Spirit. And when this idea was examined as to what lay within, it was seen that he understood himself rather than any angel, because inwardly he had believed that he spoke from himself and had life in himself and that life did not flow in from the Lord.
[5] The spirits of that earth said that spirits come to them who are such that they upset them in regard to their thought and belief about the Lord, whom they know and perceive to be a person not only from an inner perception but also from the fact that He always appears to them as a person. And they said that they nevertheless acknowledge Him as the Creator of the universe, which they completely know to be so, and that other than in the human form they cannot grasp God at all. And if they were to follow their guests in their thinking, that is to say, about God being invisible, they could have absolutely no thought whatever about God. They complained about those who are upsetting them in this way and prayed to the Lord for help, which they knew they would receive. It was granted to say to them that people of our earth are such because their thinking is materialistic and that nevertheless they know that the ancients on this earth likewise worshipped God in a human form and called Him Jehovah, Creator of the universe, as did for example, Abraham, Gideon, Joshua, and many others. Also that the Lord Himself taught them that there is no other than one God [Mark 12:29] that He Himself is this God and one with the Father [John 10:30], that the Father is in Him and He in the Father [John 14:10, 11], that the Holy Spirit, which is called the Spirit of Truth, because it is Divine Truth proceeding from the Lord, does not speak from itself but from the Lord Himself [John 16:13, 14]. [It was also granted to say] that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are only names by which the Divine Itself, the Divine Human, and the Divine going forth are expressed in the Word; and that this is said for the sake of their acknowledging the Lord as the one, only God. In short, it is the material mental imagery of the spirits of our earth that disturbs the mental images of the spirits of that earth.
[Marginal Note: See what is said below about the Lord where the paper is folded [in this manuscript]]
[6] I was then given the opportunity to speak with spirits from that earth. They told me that when given the occasion they appear to people on their earth and walk among them and speak with them as people, which takes place by their being set to thinking that they are still people on earth, and they said that the inner sight of the inhabitants is then opened. And they said that the inhabitants do not know otherwise than that they are people, and that they first know they are spirits when they suddenly are taken out of their sight and disappear. It was similar on this earth in ancient times, as when the angels appeared to Abraham [Gen. 12:1; 22:11, 15], and also to Lot [Gen. 19:1, 11] and then to all the inhabitants of Sodom at that time, and similarly also to others. At first they did not know otherwise than that they were people, as was also the case with those who appeared to Manoah and his wife [Judges 13], and also to Joshua [Ch. 1]. These things may be cited from the Word).
[7] The preacher who was with me was entirely negative to there being other planets than our own planet because he had maintained that this was impossible because the Lord was born here. Because he was so negative, he was brought into a state like that in which the spirits of that planet are when they appear to its inhabitants, and thus he was sent into that same planet so that he might not only see the planet, but also speak with those dwelling there. When this happened, communication from him there with me was arranged so that I then might similarly see the inhabitants and to some extent also some things on that planet.
[8] In this way, it was made possible to see that there are four kinds of people on that planet. They were seen one after another and individually. He spoke first with those who were clothed, next with those who were naked, then with those who appear naked but yet in a so-to-speak inflamed body and after this with those who were in a black body.
[9] When he was with those who were clothed, a woman with a rather beautiful face appeared in a fashionable dress with a lovely train hanging behind; the dress also covered her arms. Her head was covered with a little hat coiled in the shape of a garland which was also decorated with beautiful flowers. He was quite delighted by the sight of this virgin and talked with her and even held her hand. But because she then noticed that he was a spirit not from her own earth, because he was dressed differently, she hurried away from him. But then, on the right, many others of the female sex appeared to him. They were pasturing sheep and lambs that they then led to their drinking place, which they had made with a little ditch leading down from a lake. They were clothed alike, holding in their hands shepherds' staffs that they used to lead the sheep and lambs to drink. They said that they went where the staffs directed them. The sheep seen were large, with broad, long, fleecy tails. I also saw [the women's] faces close-up. They were plump and fair. The men, however, as to their faces are flesh-colored like those on our earth, but the lower part of the face, instead of bearded, was black, the nose more white than graa 2.
Their dwellings were then seen. They were humble houses, rather cottages than houses. They were rounded on top and stretched out length ways, had a door on both sides, and inside were divided into rooms on both sides - 5,6,7, according to the number in their family. They said that they were built of the earth there and also of cut-out clods of grass. And the windows were made of strands of grass woven and formed so that light could pass through in various ways, so they were woven. They also said that they could be opened and closed. They were huts. 3
[10] After this the same preacher was led further because he was charmed by a young virgin. However, he did this reluctantly as was apparent from the fact that something of a shadow of him remained in that place. He then came to those who were naked. They were seen walking two by two, that is to say, in pairs. The pairs were a husband and wife. They were not seen except two together. They were girded with a covering around the loins. Houses, that is to say cottages, of a similar construction were visible there. Their fields too were visible. They were completely snowy white. They said that there are grains there that they eat and prepare in various ways. I realized that this is done in a way similar to the preparation of grain among the Chinese and that they use this kind of seed for making bread, which they displayed. It was small, like little square pieces of bread. Besides this, it was shown that they have various kinds of herbs and flowers as well as trees and bushes on which are berries from which they make wine. Large fruits were also seen. They were like pomegranates.
[11] The reason they were kept apart, namely those who were clothed from those who were naked, was because they are of an entirely different nature. Those who were clothed were of the sort that are the spiritual in heaven, and those who were naked were like those who are the heavenly in heaven, about whom may be seen in the places cited, n. [566, 4719].
[12] When he was among those who were naked, the preacher was then brought into the state in which he had been in the world, and then he wanted to teach them. They asked him what he wanted to say. He said that he wanted to preach the Lord crucified, but they said that they knew nothing of the sort nor did they want to hear any such thing because they know only about the living Lord. He said that he wanted to teach about the living Lord. But when he spoke, they said that his manner of speaking was such that they could tell that he was speaking for the sake of reputation and financial gain because there was nothing heavenly in the way he spoke, only what was earthly, which is harsh, and so he could not teach them. The reason is that they pay no attention to words so far as they come from the mouth but so far as that they come from the heart, where in this case there was nothing angelic. He was therefore silent. When he was living in the world, he had been very emotionally stirring, so that he was able to move his listeners to a feeling of holiness. But this emotional power was an acquired art and stemmed from a love of the world, which the inhabitants there could tell. With them at the time, there were spirits from this earth through whom they could perceive such things, because spirits do not care about outer things but only about the inner things within outer ones. They called his speech mundane. See below. N.B.
[13] After this he came to those with inflamed bodies, and who look like this from their loves of the world and luxury in life. These too were naked. But after a short time he moved on to the last, those who were black, some clothed, some naked.
[14] I was instructed by the inhabitants of that earth that their sun appears to them to be about a quarter of the size of our sun and appears to rotate around their earth and is flame-colored like our sun. However, to our eyes it is a star. It was observed also that their earth is about 500 miles 4in circumference and that their year is 200 days, and the day 15 hours, relative to the hours of our time, which their spirits were able to know by a sort of spiritual sight respecting the duration of times and extension of spaces. This happens in a spiritual way that cannot be expressed using words that are the verbal expressions for material things. The reason for this is that the words of the speech of our earth are verbal expressions for material things. From these spiritual ideas can indeed be grasped but are still based upon material things, from which if the material elements are taken away, the spiritual idea perishes. This happens, because the inhabitants of our earth relate to the external senses.
[15] I spoke with them about the inhabitants of our earth, saying that because they are of such a nature, they cannot conceive that people live after death and then look like people as to face, body, arms, feet, and the rest; less that they can then appear clothed; and still less that they have houses and habitations to dwell in. And this is solely due to the fact that they think superficially and solely on the basis of bodily sense-impressions in such a way that they cannot be withdrawn from material things. On this account they cannot form any idea of the soul as a person but have an idea either of the wind or of some other formless entity. And as a result, because they have almost no idea of the soul and nevertheless know from the doctrine of the Church that they are going to live after death, they believe that they are not going to be resurrected until the Last Judgment, and then it will be a bodily resurrection. They believe that the soul will be joined to this body, indeed that before this a person will have no life, and that the soul, which is life, must then be poured in again! They are permitted to believe this because they believe that nothing lives except the body itself. Therefore unless this were said to rise, the doctrine of the resurrection would be entirely rejected. Nonetheless, this idea of resurrection does have this use: they believe in a life after death. When those who have lived well lie sick in bed and worldly and bodily things fade, they then still think no otherwise than that they are going to live immediately after their decease. Removed from the teaching about the Last Judgment, they then speak about heaven with hope of life there.
[16] N.B. Those who were naked and walked two by two said that they immediately perceived whether two partners are in a genuine marriage relationship, which was actually shown by a spiritual mental image such that a similitude in inward matters in all respects was apparent. This likeness was formed by the joining together of what is true and good, and from this came the appearance of a one as it were, because from this reciprocal joining a genuine marriage relationship comes into existence. And it was also perceived that similar faith and similar charity, or in other words, similar truth and similar good, joined together, bring this about. It was also said that that there is no genuine marriage relationship at all if there is one husband and two or many wives and that they understand this through a spiritual mental image.
[17] Little children too were seen there, and it was said that neighbors come together from their dwellings especially for the sake of the little children, so that they can be together with their neighbors' little children under the watchful control of the parents.
[18] I spoke with spirits of this earth about the Lord, why He assumed the Human, as has been written pa aparte bladet 5, and affirming these things, they said that [I spoke] rightly, (add what is written several pages below about the Divine Human of the Lord, from heaven) [4844].
[19] Subsequently I heard from there that [spirits] who teach them about the Lord are sent to them by Him, and that now they do not admit arrivals from this earth. These confuse them, especially with the idea of three persons in the Divine, since they know God is one, and accordingly that the Divine is one, and not formed of three who are of one mind. [They will not admit them] unless they want to think of Him as they think of an Angel: in whom there is an inmost of life, which is called the soul; its visible aspect which is in the human form; and the life flowing out from his love, which surrounds him. For every angel's nature, as regards its love, is known at a distance, but the Divine flowing out from the Lord, because it is from the Being itself of the life of all things, fills the whole heaven and forms it.
4844. 6About the Lord's Divine Human, that it is acknowledged everywhere in heaven
(Insert where it treats of the inhabitants of other earths, at the end)
All people who have not destroyed their rational faculty and no longer receive the inflow of heaven into it, and so do not acknowledge nature as God, have a mental picture of God as Human. This is attested by much experience of those in the other life. This Divine Human is nowhere else than in the Lord. Let anyone who wishes think where else the Divine Human could be. The Lord even clearly said that he who sees Him sees the Father [John 14:9], and that He is in the Father and Father in Him [John 14:10, 11], and that the Father and He are one [John 10:30].
4845. A second point is that the thoughts of the angels, and wisdom is in harmony with the form of heaven, and their affections in harmony with the changes of states there; for unless the form of heaven is perfect, no one can think, and still less be wise, for all thought extends into other communities of heaven, arranged in the form of heaven. The form of heaven reflects in general the form of a human being because it corresponds to the individual parts of a human being, as has been shown.
[2] Because 1) all things in the whole body, from the highest to the lowest and from the inmost to the outmost, are forms organized entirely for receiving the life of faith coming from love; and to the extent that there is Divine Love from the Lord in people, to that extent their organic forms are receptors of life, consequently are life. This was the case most perfectly in the Lord because the Divine love Itself, which was the Being of His life, formed a body to its likeness so as to be a receptor of it to such an extent even that all parts of it were forms of Divine love, and because it became Divine, are Divine love. Nothing is closed off as with finite things, but all things are formed in the pattern of the infinite heaven.
[3] There is a likeness of the father in the reproduction of a person from the moment of conception, thus from the soul, which is the being of life. This shares itself with the body, and forms a likeness of itself. For the body is the manifestation of life from life's very being.
2) They are not aware that the whole body is the form of their love, which is known in heaven. Nor do they know how the Lord, although a man and not a spirit, went in through closed doors.
3) There is not one God when there are three persons.
4) The say that there is omnipresence even as to the human [aspect], as in the holy supper.
5) They believe that they will be resurrected as to the body because they know nothing about how things are in the other life, that is to say, that they will be in a body and in [.....].
7They do not know what the soul is or what the body is. The learned do not know what the soul is: whether it is some definite thing or whether it is only a life force or whether it is thought in a certain atmosphere. [They do not know] whether it will be in a body there or elsewhere, when nevertheless the soul is the actual person and has an entirely human form, and a body has been added to it wherever [it is] for its functioning in the gross [world. This is the cause of the madness of the learned; the simple know how it is and that they will stand before God Himself.] 8
[4] That the Divine is Human in heaven is a basic element of wisdom, because it is a basic element of thought [about heaven], for the mental image of the whole of heaven is the principal element. Therefore a person who does not have this mental image cannot have angelic wisdom. From this it is also clear that the Lord as to His Divine Human is the entirety of heaven and of the wisdom of the angels there.
4846. A third point is that the Divine in heaven before the advent of the Lord was the Human Divine, as is evident from correspondences, for the reason that everything that was going out from the Divine at that time was in Human form. Thus, this form had been the Manifestation of the Infinite's love coming forth from love's very Being. And because it was love's, and the Divine is characterized by Infinite power, that is to say, is omnipotence Itself, therefore too it followed of necessity that it so happened that it put on the Human in actuality. These things have been written through an inflow from heaven, from the wisdom of angels there.
4847. Through the Lord's Divine Human, order was re-established down to the lowest level of life, which is the sensual, for the successive Divine order had ceased to exist in the lowest things. Thus the Divine [had ceased to be present] on the lowest level. This order was restored by the Lord so that the Divine could reach even there.
2) When I spoke with the angels, I perceived from the idea that flowed in from them that there could never be a Divine creating all things unless it were one - not divided into three equal essences, but into three successive essences, which are Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and are one person. I perceived also that the Divine Itself, which is the first essence, had to have been the person in its endeavor, that is to say, in its act of becoming, from which it was virtually a person, consequently it was reflexively the person; and that the second essence was the person born, as to its essence, from the first. And the third essence in succession is the person flowing out, which is the whole heaven, and if given a name can be called the Holy Spirit, when it is there from the Lord, and in the Church from it.
[3] This may also be proved from the fact that the body is the manifestation of life from the soul, which is the being of life. The same is true with the spirit. This may be proved from the Athanasian Creed.
[4] Those from the Christian world who deny the Lord on the basis of principles taken from and confirmed in the world have scarcely any life; they are entirely foolish. There were two, who were later brought together, who were like this. They were entirely foolish, Polh: dotter, och en annan 9[see 4729], a miserable state. It is otherwise with those who do not confirm their belief.
Footnotes:
1. At this point in the margin is the word "schriver"
2. Swedish for "gray"
3. In the text is a hand drawing of an elongated building, viewed from the side, with at door at one end, a curved roof, and five windows or doors on the side.
4. Probably a Swedish mile, about 10.6 kilometers in Swedenborg's day.
5. Swedish for "on a separate page"
6. Following the author's instruction 4844-4847 is inserted after 4832.
7. The words in the original are crossed off.
8. These ending words shown in square brackets are crossed off in the manuscript.
9. Swedish for "Polhem: daughter and another man or woman"
4832. CONCERNING AN EARTH OUTSIDE OF THE SOLAR WORLD AMONG THE LESSER EARTHS, AND CONCERNING THE LORD THERE. (See five or six pages below: CONTINUATION CONCERNING THE DIVINE HUMAN OF THE LORD [4844-4847.])
(I was elevated from a place where I was, for many hours, about ten, continuously; and it was granted me to observe the elevation and removal from the former place, by steps, and until at length they did not appear. I was in a wakeful state, and, throughout that time, spoke about that matter with the spirits who were near me. A certain one from this earth was adjoined to me, who, when alive, had been a celebrated preacher, and also a very pathetic writer. The spirits, from an idea of him derived from such things as I have heard and clearly perceived about him, supposed him to be a Christian in heart even beyond others; for, in the world, one is judged from his preachings and writings and not from his life, and if from the life, they excuse blemishes when they are in such an idea; for the idea, or notion, about anyone, draws all things to its side.) (When, at last, after ten hours, I was elevated, and perceived that I was outside the world of our sun, I also perceived, from the region of the elevation, that I was in a starry world towards the meridional region:) (then there spoke with me certain [spirits] from some earth there. They said that at times there come certain ones to them from other parts. The way was also pointed out by which they came; it was to the left; and I observed that they were from our earth. They said about those, that certain of the visitors disturb them by saying that they believe in three persons and one God, and, also, that they have the idea of three Gods although they say one with the mouth; for, when they represent persons by means of the ideas of thought, as happens in the other life, there appear three persons, like men, and then they make these, by agreement, to be like one, by means of something appearing, as it were, continuous, and say that the three are thus one. And the three, thus united, they call one God, but not one Divine; from which things [those spirits] perceive what sort of idea, concerning the one God, those have who are from our earth. The preacher who was with me (Scriverius), when he also was in the idea of such a thought, represented three Gods as one in a similar manner; but when he was not in the idea of thought, but only in speech, such as he had been in, in the world, he then said that God is invisible; and, when he said this, he thought of the Father alone, and not of the Lord, and then no other idea resulted from thence, than, as it were, an invisible universe, and thus the quality of nature in her first principles. He was also then examined as to whether he has believed in this way; and it was found that such has been his interior faith, thus, that, inwardly, God has been to him the inmost of nature, but outwardly only names, to wit, God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It was then also found, that, inwardly in himself, he has made nature God, and that still he has had concerning the Holy Spirit the idea of an angel, and concerning it the idea of a visible God, for the reason, as was discovered, that, in the world, he has so often thought, concerning himself, that he spoke from the Holy Spirit; and when [these notions] were examined as to interiors from the idea, it was seen that he understood himself rather than any angel, because he had inwardly believed that he spoke from himself and had life in himself, not [life] inflowing from the Lord.) The spirits of that earth said that spirits of such a sort come to them, and disturb them as regards their thought and faith (concerning God, whom they know and perceive to be a man, and this not only from interior perception but also from the fact that He always appears to them as a man; and that they now acknowledge Him as Creator of the universe, which also they clearly know; and that they cannot at all perceive God otherwise than in a human form; and, if they should think according to the opinion of their guests, namely, of an invisible God, that they could think altogether nothing about God. They complained of those who thus disturb them, and prayed to the Lord for succor, which they also know they shall receive. It was granted me to tell them that the men of our earth are such, because their thought is material; and that, yet, they know that the ancients in this earth worshipped God in like manner under a human form, and called Him Jehovah, the Creator of the universe, for instance, Abraham, Gideon, Joshua, and several others; further, that the Lord Himself taught them that there is but one God, and that Himself was that God; that He was one with the Father; that the Father was in Him and He in the Father; and that the Holy Spirit, which is called the Spirit of Truth, because it is the Divine Truth proceeding from the Lord, does not speak from itself, but from the Lord Himself; and that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are only names whereby, in the Word, is expressed the Divine Itself, the Divine Human and the Divine Proceeding; and that this was so said, for the reason that they might acknowledge the Lord as the only God; in a word, the ideas of the spirits of our earth are material, and disturb the ideas of spirits from that earth.) 1
(It was afterwards granted me to speak with spirits from that earth. They related, that, when leave is given them, they appear to men of their own earth, and walk amongst them, and speak with them as men, which happens by their being let into the thought that they are still men in the earth, and the interior sight of the inhabitants being opened; and they said that the inhabitants do not know other than that they are men, and that they then first know them [not] to be men, when they are suddenly removed from their eyes, and disappear. It was similar in this earth, in ancient times, for instance, that angels appeared to Abraham, and also to Lot, also to all the inhabitants of Sodom at that time, and likewise to others in a similar manner, who, at the beginning, knew no other than that they were men; as, also, he who appeared to Manoah and his wife, and also to Joshua. (Let these things be cited from the Word.)
The Preacher who was with me was wholly in the negative as to other earths than our earth existing, because he had contended against others, that this could not be, because the Lord was born here. Because he was in such a negative opinion, he was brought into a state similar to that in which the spirits of that earth are when they appear to the inhabitants, and so was let go into that very earth, that he might not only see the earth but also speak with the inhabitants there. When this was done, a communication of him with me was granted thence, so that I might then, in like manner, see the inhabitants, and also, in part, some of the things on that earth.) Thus it was granted me to see, that, in that earth, were four races of men (who were successively seen, and distinguished. He first spoke [with] those who were clothed; afterwards, with those there who were naked; then, with those who appear naked, but still as if with an inflamed body; and, again, with those who had a black body.) (When he was with those who were clothed, there appeared a woman with quite a beautiful face, with becoming dress, and a tunic hanging tastefully on her back - the arms, also, were covered by the same garment. Her head was crowned with a chaplet, entwined in the form of a garland which was also adorned with beautiful flowers. He was exceedingly delighted at the sight of that virgin, and spoke with her, and also took hold of her hand; but, inasmuch as she was then aware that he was a spirit not from her earth because dressed differently, she snatched herself away from him.
Then, at the right, appeared to him many others of the female sex, who fed sheep and lambs, which they then conducted to their drinking-place, which they had made by leading a little channel from some lake. These were similarly dressed, having in their hands shepherds' crooks, by means of which they led the sheep and lambs to their drink. They said that they [the sheep] go to that place which they indicate with their crooks. The sheep seen were large, with broad and long fleecy tails. The people's faces, also, were seen by me at closer quarters: they were full and fair. But the men are, as to the face, of a flesh-color, as in our earth; but the lower part of the face, instead of having a beard, was black, and the nose more inclining to snow-white than [to flesh-color]. Then, also, their habitations were seen: they were poor houses), (rather huts than houses. . . They were rounded above, and extended lengthwise, having a door on both sides, and within, on both sides, they were divided into chambers, 5, 6, 7, according to the number of their family. They said that these are constructed from the soil there, and also from thick grassy sods, and the windows of grassy fibers interwoven, formed so that the light may be able to pass through, thus interwoven in various ways; also, that they could be opened and closed.) [There are] huts. 2(Afterwards the same preacher was brought farther; which, however, happened against his will, because he was delighted with that virgin, as appeared from the fact that somewhat of a shadow from him still remained in that place. He then came to those who were naked. They were there seen two and two, or in pairs, walking about. The pairs were husband and wife. None were seen who were not associated in twos.) (They were girt about the loins with a covering; also with some covering [around the head]. There appeared there houses, or huts, of similar structure; and their fields also appeared, which were a plain of snowy-white: they said that there are grains there, which they eat and prepare in various ways. It was perceived that [they are prepared] similarly to the grain amongst the Chinese; and that such seeds are to them for bread: this they showed, and it was small, like square bits of bread. It was shown, besides, that they had herbs and flowers of various kind. Then also trees and shrubs, whereon were berries from which they prepared wine. Also, large fruits were seen, which were like pomegranates.)
(That they were thus distinct, namely, the clothed from the naked, was because they are of wholly different genius; for they who are clothed were of such a genius as the spiritual [angels] in heaven, and those who were naked, such as the celestial [angels] in heaven, concerning whom see places cited, no. [?].
When the preacher was with the naked, he was then brought into the state in which he was in the world; and, then, he wished to teach them. It was asked what) (he wished to say. He said that he wished to preach the Lord crucified. But they said that they know of no such thing, and that neither did they wish to hear of such a thing, because they only knew a living Lord. They said that he also wished to teach about the living Lord. They also said, that, when he spoke, his speech was of such a nature that they discerned that he speaks for the sake of reputation and profit, inasmuch as there was nothing heavenly in the speech, but only earthly, which was harsh; and thus, that he could not teach them; for they do not attend to words in so far as they are from the mouth, but in so far as they are from the heart, in which aspect there was nothing angelic [in what he said]. Wherefore, he was silent; for, whilst alive in the world, he had been exceedingly pathetic, so that he was able to excite his hearers to piety; but that pathetic power was acquired by art, and from love of the world, as the inhabitants there discerned. Spirits from that earth, by whose means they perceived such things, were then with them; for spirits do not regard externals, but only internals in externals. They called his speech materialistic. See below.) (Afterwards he came to those who had an inflamed body, who so appeared from lobes of the world and luxury in living. These were naked also; but he at once proceeded to the last ones, who were black, some of them being clothed and some naked.)
(I was instructed by the inhabitants of that earth, that their sun appears to them of the size of a fourth part of our sun, and that, in appearance, it goes around their earth; also, is of a flame-color, like our sun - which sun, nevertheless, to our eyes is a star. It was also observed that their earth was about 500 miles [German] in circumference, and that their year was of 200 days, and their day of fifteen hours compared with the hours of our time, which their spirits could know by a sort of spiritual sight respecting the duration of times and extension of spaces. This happens in a spiritual manner, not capable of being expressed by words which belong to the material form; for the words of the speech of our earth are forms of material things, wherefrom spiritual ideas are indeed arrived at, but which are, all the while, founded on material things; from which things if material conceptions be abstracted, the idea perishes. This is the case, because the inhabitants of our earth relate to the external senses.) (I spoke with them concerning the inhabitants of our earth, that, being of such a character [i. e. relating to the external senses], they are unable to conceive that man can live after death, and then appear as a man, as to the face, body, arms, feet and the rest; still less that they can then appear clothed with garments, and, still less again, that they have mansions and habitations; and this solely for the reason that they think exteriorly, and only from sensuals, which are of the body; consequently they cannot be withdrawn from material things; for which reason they cannot form to themselves, concerning the soul, any idea of a man, but either an idea of wind, or another of no form; and, inasmuch as they thus have almost no idea concerning the soul, and yet, from the doctrine of the Church, they know that they are to live after death, therefore they believe they shall not rise again until a certain last judgment, and then with the body. Some believe that the soul is then conjoined to that body; some that in the interval [between death and then] man has no life, and that the soul, which belongs to life, shall then be again infused. They are permitted to believe this, because they believe that nothing lives save the body itself; wherefore, unless that is said to rise, they would wholly reject the doctrine of the resurrection. Still, this idea of the resurrection has this accompanying utility, that they believe in a life after death when they lie sick in bed and mundane and corporeal things have less weight with them. At that moment, those who have lived well uniformly think no otherwise than that they shall live immediately after death. Uninfluenced by the doctrinal concerning the last judgment, they then also speak about heaven with the hope of a life there [immediately after death].
(Those who were naked and walked about two and two, said that they perceive, at once, whether there is conjugial union between two married partners, as was also shown by means of a spiritual idea, which was of such a nature that there appears a likeness as to interiors of every sort. This [likeness] is formed by the conjunction of truth and good, and thence there is an appearance as one; for, from that conjunction, the conjugial union exists between two; and it was also perceived that similar faith and similar charity, or similar truth and good, conjoined, effect this. It was said, also, that there is no conjugial union at all if there is one husband and two or more wives and that they perceived this by that spiritual idea.) (Infants are also seen there; and it was said that neighbors come together from their habitations especially on account of the infants; so that they may be in company with the infants of neighbors, under the eyes and authority of the parents.) I spoke with the spirits of that earth concerning the Lord, why He put on the human - just as has been written on a separate page; and they said, with affirmation, that [I had written] correctly. 3
Footnotes:
1. At this place there occurs, in the original MS., the marginal note, "See what is said concerning the Lord, below, where the paper is folded" directing attention, no doubt, to the numbers mentioned in the heading to the present article, viz., 4844-4847.
2. After no. 5248 there is a diagram of these huts.
3. The Latin Edition, here, incorporates in the text the following parenthesis: "(Let those things be added which are written, from heaven, below - a few pages on - concerning the Divine Human of the Lord [No. 4844].)" These things, therefore, now follow.
4832. De Tellure extra mundum solarem, inter minores, et ibi de Domino
Videantur 3 vel 6 paginis infra, continuatio de Divino Humano Domini (4844-47)
Elevatus sum e loco ubi eram per plures horas circiter per 10 continue, et observare dabatur elevationem et remotionem a priori loco per gradus, et tandem usque ut non apparerent; erat in statu vigili; et per id tempus loquutus de ea re cum spiritibus qui juxta me.
[2] Quidam ex hac tellure adjunctus erat mihi, qui dum vixit, praedicator inter famigeratos, et quoque scriptor patheticus valde fuerat, spiritus ex idea de illo capta a talibus quae de eo audivi et appercepi, putabant illum esse etiam Christianum corde prae reliquis; nam in mundo judicatur ex praedicatione et ex scriptis, et non ex vita, et si ex vita, excusant naevos cum in idea tali sunt, nam idea seu apperceptio de aliquo trahit omnia ad sui partes.
[3] Cum tandem post 10 horas elevatus sum, et percepi quod essem extra solis nostri mundum, et secundum elevationis plagam percipiebam, quod essem in orbe stellifero versus meridionalem plagam,
[4] tunc loquuti sunt mecum quidam ex aliqua tellure ibi, dicebant, quod aliqui aliunde quandoque veniant ad eos, via etiam monstrata est per quam venirent, erat ad sinistrum, et appercepi quod essent e nostra tellure; dicebant de illis, quod quidam eorum perturbent eos per id quod dicant se credere in tres personas et unum Deum, et quoque quod ideam trium deorum habeant, tametsi ore dicunt unum, nam cum sistunt personas per ideas cogitationis, ut fit in altera vita, apparent tres personae sicut homines, et tunc illos per unanimitatem faciunt sicut forent unum per quoddam apparens sicut continuum, dicunt quod sic tres unus sint; et quod tres ita unitos vocent unum Deum, non autem unum Divinum, ex quibus percipiunt, qualem ideam de Deo uno habent illi qui e nostra tellure. Qui mecum erat praedicator, is quoque cum in tali idea cogitationis erat, similiter repraesentabat tres deos ut unum, sed cum non in idea cogitationis erat, sed solum in loquela, in quali fuerat in mundo, tunc dicebat Deum esse invisibilem, et cum hoc dicebat, cogitabat de solo Patre, et non de Domino, et tunc non alia idea inde resultaba, quam sicut universum inconspicuum, et sic qualis natura in suis primis, et quoque tunc examinatus, num similiter crediderit, et compertum quod talis ejus interior fides fuerit, ita quod intus fuerit ei intimum naturae Deus, sed extus solum nomina, nempe Pater, Filius et Spiritus Sanctus Deus. Compertum etiam tunc quod intus in se naturam fecerit Deum, et quod usque ideam angeli habuerit de spiritu sancto, et de illo ideam Dei visibilis, ex causa, prout compertum, quia in mundo toties cogitavit de se, quod loquutus sit ex spiritu sancto, et cum ea idea examinata fuit quoad interiora, visum est, quod se potius quam aliquem angelum intellexerit, quia intus crediderat quod ex se loqueretur, et vitam haberet in se, non influentem a Domino.
[5] Spiritus illius telluris dicebant, quod spiritus ad illos veniant, qui tales sunt, qui perturbant eos de eorum cogitatione et fide de Deo, quem sciunt, et percipiunt, esse hominem, et hoc non modo ex interiore perceptione, sed etiam ex eo quod appareat illis semper sicut homo, et quod usque agnoscant illum pro Creatore universi, quod etiam plane sciunt, et quod nullatenus possint percipere Deum aliter quam in humana forma, et si secundum opinionem hospitum illorum cogitarent, nempe de Deo invisibili, quod nihil prorsus de Deo possent cogitare; questi sunt de illis, qui ita perturbant eos, et precati Dominum de ope, quam etiam sciunt se accepturos: dicere datum est illis, quod homines nostrae telluris tales sint, quia cogitatio eorum est materialis, et quod usque sciant, quod antiqui in hac tellure similiter adoraverint Deum sub humana forma, et vocaverint Ipsum Jehovam creatorem universi, prout Abraham, Guideon, Joschua, et plures alii, tum quod Ipse Dominus docuerit illos, quod non nisi quam unus Deus sit [Marc. XII: 29], et quod Ipse ille Deus esset, quodque unum cum Patre [Joh. X: 30], quodque Pater in Ipso et Ipse in Patre [Joh. XIV: 10, 11, 11], et quod Spiritus sanctus, qui vocatur spiritus veritatis, quia est Divinum Verum procedens a Domino, non loquatur ex se sed ex Ipso Dmino [Joh. XVI: 13, 14]: et quod Pater, Filius et spiritus sanctus sint modo nomina quibus Ipsum Divinum, Divinum Humanum, et Divinum procedens, in Verbo exprimitur; et quod hoc ita dictum sit ob causam, ut agnoscerent Dominum pro unico Deo; verbo, sunt ideae materiales spirituum nostrae telluris, quae perturbant ideas spirituum ex illa tellure.
[6] 1
Loqui dein datum est cum spiritibus ex illa tellure, narrabant quod cum illis venia datur, appareant hominibus suae telluris, et ambulent inter illos, et loquantur cum illis sicut homines, quod fit per id quod mittantur in cogitationem quod sint homines in tellure adhuc, et quod incolis tunc aperiatur visus interior, et dicebant, quod incolae non aliter sciant quam quod homines sint, et quod tunc primum sciant esse spiritus, cum auferuntur subito ex oculis eorum, ac disparent, simile in hac tellure fuerat antiquis temporibus, sicut quod apparuerint angeli Abrahamo [Gen. 12:1; 22:11, 15], et quoque Lotho [Gen. 19:1, 11], tum omnibus incolis Sodomae tunc, et quoque aliis similiter, qui principio nec sciebant aliter quam quod homines essent, sicut etiam qui apparuit Manoacho et ejus uxori [Jud. 13], et quoque Joschuae [Jos. 1], - (ex Verbo illa sumantur).
[7] Praedicator qui mecum erat, prorsus in negativo erat, quod tellures aliae darentur quam nostra tellus, quia defenderat contra alios, quod hoc non posset esse, quia Dominus hic natus est; quia in tali negativo erat, ipse in similem statum redactus est, in quem spiritus illius telluris cum apparent incolis, et sic in ipsam illam tellurem missus est, ut videret non modo tellurem, sed etiam loqueretur cum incolis ibi, quod cum factum est, dabatur communicatio ejus inde mecum, ut similiter tunc viderem incolas et quoque quoad partem aliqua super tellure illa.
[8] Ita videre datum est quod in tellure illa quatuor genera hominum essent, qui successive visi sunt, etiam separati. Loquebatur primum [cum] illis qui erant vestiti, postea cum illis ibi qui nudi, dein cum illis qui apparent nudi sed usque corpore quasi iflammato; et porro cum illis qui corpore nigro erant.
[9] Cum erat apud illos qui erant vestiti, apparebat faemina satis bella facie, cum veste decente, tunica pendente a tergo decore, brachia eadem veste quoque tegebantur; capite tecta fuit capitello ad formam serti circumducto, quod quoque pulchris floribus ornatum erat; ille visa illa virgine, delectabatur valde, et loquebatur cum illa, et quoque prehendebat ejus manum, sed quia illa appercipiebat tunc quod esset spiritus, non ex sua tellure, quia vestitus aliter, proripiebat se ab illo; at tunc apparebant ei ad dextrum plures aliae ex sexu faeminino, quae pascebant oves et agnos, quos tunc ducebant ad potatorium suum, quod fecerant per fossulam deductam ex aliquo lacu, illae erant similiter vestitae, manibus habentes baculos pastoritios, per quos ducebant oves et agnos ad potum, dicebant quod illuc vadant, quo baculis suis ostendunt: oves visae erant grandes caudis lanigeris latis et protensis. Facies etiam visae sunt mihi propius, erant plenae et pulchrae; viri autem quoad faciem sunt colore carneo, quali in nostra tellure, sed inferior pars faciei, loco barbae, erat nigrum, et nasus ad niveum plus vergens, graa. 2
Visa etiam tunc erant habitacula eorum, erant domus humiles, potius casae quam domus, erant supra rotundatae, et in longum protractae, janua utrinque, et intus utrinque divisae in cameras, 5, 6, 7, secundum numerum familiae illorum; dicebant illas exstrui ex humo ibi, et quoque ex glebis gramineis excisis, et fenestras ex filis gramineis contextis, ac formatis ut lux possit transparere, vario modo, ita contextae, etiam quod aperiri et claudi possent. Mapalia. 3
[10] Postea idem praedicator perducebatur ulterius, quod tamen invito illo factum, quia delectabatur illa virgine, quod apparebat ex eo, quod usque aliquid umbrae ex illo permansit in loco illo; tunc veniebat ad illos qui nudi erant, ibi visi bini et bini, seu paria, ambulantes, erant maritus et uxor, non visi nisi quod bini consociati fuerint; circum lumbos erant cincti velamine, ibi apparebant omus seu casae simili structura; et quoque apparebant agri eorum, qui plane nivei erant, dicebant quod ibi sint grana quae comedunt, et praeparant vario modo, perceptum quod similiter sicut grana apud Chinenses; et quod talia semina sint illis pro pane, quem ostendebant, qui erat parvus, sicut frusta quadrata panis: praeterea ostensum quod haberent varii generis herbas, flores, tum quoque arbores, et arbusta, in quibus baccae, ex quibus vinum praeparabant, fructus quoque magni visi, qui erant sicut malogranata.
[11] Quod ita distincti fuerint, nempe qui vestiti a nudis, erat quia prorsus alia indole sunt, qui enim vestiti sunt erant indole quali spirituales in coelo, et qui nudi, quales coelestes in coelo, de quibus videantur loca quae citata, n.... 4
[12] Cum apud nudos erat, tunc praedicator perductus in statum in quo fuit in mundo, et tunc voluit docere illos, quaerebant quid vellet dicere, dicebat quod praedicare vellet Dominum crucifixum, sed dicebant, quod nesciant tale, et quod nec audire vellent tale, quia sciunt modo Dominum vivum, dicebat quod etiam docere vellet de Domino vivo, at cum loquebatur, dicebant quod loquela ejus esset talis, ut apperciperent quod loquatur propter famam et propter lucrum, quia non erat coeleste in loquela, solum terrestre, quod asperum, et sic quod non docere illos posset, nam non ad voces attendunt quatenus ex ore, sed quatenus ex corde, ubi non angelicum; quapropter tacebat; fuerat enim in mundo, dum vixit, maxime patheticus, sic ut movere potuerit auditores ad sanctum, sed patheticum illud fuerat arte acquisitum, et ex amore mundi, quod appercipiebant incolae ibi: erant spiritus ex tellure illa, tunc apud eos, per quos talia percipiebant, nam spiritus non curant externa sed modo interna in externis, vocabant loquelam ejus materialem. Vide infra. N.B.
[13] Postea veniebat ad illos qui corpore inflammato erant, qui tales apparebant ex amoribus mundi, et luxurie in vita; hi quoque nudi erant, sed mox pergebat ad ultimos, qui nigri, quorum aliqui vestiti aliqui nudi erant.
[14] Ab icolis illius telluris instruebar, quod sol illis appareat magnitudine quartae partis sicut magnitudo nostri solis, et quod circumvagetur ad apparentiam tellurem illorum, colore etiam flammeo, sicut noster sol, qui tamen coram nostris oculis est stella: etiam apperceptum quod tellus illorum circiter esset 500 milliarium 5
in circumferentia; et quod annus eorum esset 200 dierum, et dies 15 horarum, respective ad horas nostri temporis, quod scire poterant spiritus eorum per modum visionis spiritualis de duratione temporum, et extensione spatiorum; hoc fit modo spirituali, qui non exprimi potest vocibus quae materialium formae sunt, nam voces loquelae nostrae telluris sunt formae materialium, ex quibus ideae spirituales quidem capiuntur, sed quae usque fundantur super materialibus, quibus si materialia abstrahuntur, perit idea, hoc fit, quia incolae nostrae telluris referunt sensus externos.
[15] Loquutus cum illis de incolis nostrae telluris, quod quia tales sunt, non possint concipere, quod homo vivere possit post mortem, et tunc apparere sicut homo, quoad faciem, corpus, brachia, pedes, et reliqua, minus quod tunc vestibus apparere possint induti, et adhuc minus quod mansiones et habitacula illis sint, et hoc solum ex causa quia exterius et solum ex sensualibus, quae corporis cogitant, ita quod removeri a materialibus nequeant; quapropter nec de anima aliquam ideam hominis possunt sibi formare, sed ideam vel venti, vel aliam nullius formae, et quia sic de anima paene nullam ideam habent, et tamen ex doctrina Ecclesiae sciunt, quod victuri post mortem, idcirco credunt quod non prius resurrecturi sint quam ultimo quodam judicio, et tunc cum corpore - quidem credunt quod tunc conjungetur anima corpori illi, quidem quod prius nulla vita homini, et quod anima quae vitae tunc infundenda iterum! hoc permittitur illis credere, quia credunt nihil vivere quam ipsum corpus, quare nisi dicatur id resurgere, prorsus doctrinam de resurrectione rejicerent. Usque haec idea de resurrectione secum id utile habet, quod credant vitam pst mortem; quando jacent aegroti in lecto, et illis mundana et corporea hebetata sunt, tunc usque qui bene vixerunt, non cogitant aliter quam quod victuri statim post obitum; remotive a doctrinali de ultimo judicio, loquuntur etiam tunc de coelo, cum spe vitae ibi.
[16] N. B. Illi qui nudi erant, et bini ac bini ambulabant, dicebant quod percipiant illico, num inter binos conjuges conjugiale sit, quod etiam ostensum per ideam spiritualem, quae erat talis, ut similitudo appareret quoad interiora omnimodo, quae formata est per conjunctionem veri et boni, et inde apparentiam sicut unum, nam ex illa conjunctione apud binos existit conjugiale; et quoque perceptum, quod similis fides et similis charitas, seu simile verum et bonum, conjuncta id efficiant; dictum etiam quod prorsus non conjugiale sit, si unus vir et binae aut plures uxores; et quod illi hoc spirituali idea percipiant.
[17] Infantes etiam ibi visi sunt, et dictum quod vicini ex habitaculis suis conveniant, praesertim propter infantes, ut in consortio sint cum infantibus vicinorum sub aspectu et auspicio parentum.
[18] Loquutus sum cum spiritibus illius telluris de Domino cur assumsit Humanum, sicut scriptum est pa aparte bladet, 6
et affirmando ea dixerunt quod recte, (addantur quae infra post aliquot paginas de Divino Humano Domini, ex coelo ) [4844].
[19] Postea audivi inde, quod a Domino illis missi sint qui doceant de Ipso, tum quod nunc non admittant advenas ex hac tellure, qui perturbant eos, imprimis per tres personas in Divinitate, quoniam sciunt quod Deus unus sit, proinde etiam Divinum unum, et non ex tribus unanimum, nisi velint cogitare de Ipso sicut de Angelo, in quo intimum vitae, quod dicitur anima, et visibile ejus quod est in forma humana, et procedens vita, quae est circum illum, ex amore ejus, nam quisque angelus ad distantiam percipitur qualis est quoad amorem; sed procedens Divinum a Domino, quia est ex ipso
Esse vitae omnium, implet universum coelum, et facit illud.
Footnotes:
1. Sidebar: Videantur quae infra de Domino, ubi charta plicata [ vide ms. Paginam 233-34, whi angulum abscissum]
2. = cinereum, canum (vox suecica)
3. diagram of a hut with many doors
4. cf. 566, 4719
5. = 5000 kilometra
6. = super folio peculiari